Carol:
Hello, hello, and welcome back to The People Forward-Leadership Podcast. Today, we have something very special. We have a special guest, which I'm really excited about. And every now and then, as I mentioned in the podcast, we are going to be interviewing people who I love to call Catalyst.
And these are people who are embracing and embodying the People Forward-Leadership framework and are actively utilizing it within their organizations or have seen some success with it or are trying to implement it within their workplace. And today, we have a special guest who is aligned with that. And my guest today is Leann Caver. She is the CEO of C-Tran... at C-Tran and she's the sixth CEO in C-Tran's 43-year history.
And the first Black woman to hold that position. And she leads the agency of roughly 450 employees that provides a variety of transit services within the region and community. Leann's career in public transportation has spanned more than two decades, and she's held various positions, which I'll have her share about in a moment. And it was her desire to help people that really guided her two-decade career in transit. So with that, welcome, Leann. Thank you for being on the show today.
Leann:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I am privileged to be talking with you today.
Carol:
Well, thank you. Thank you. So I love that you have had this expansive career within your industry within transit, and I would love for you to share a little bit about the roles that you've had.
I saw some of that in your bio, but I would love to share the journey for people to hear the journey you went on from where you started to being at the top. What is that song? "Started from the bottom, now we're here."
Leann:
Yes.
Carol:
I would love for you...
Leann:
Or, "The Jeffersons (Movin' on Up.)"
Carol:
Exactly, exactly. I love that. I love that.
Leann:
Well, as in my bio, I said I wanted to help people, and I always thought I would find myself in the medical field, but I am here in transportation. It took me a while to realize that I'm still helping people just in a complete different capacity that I ever imagined. I started in the... just fell into the transportation industry in 2004. I'm a single mother and needed a job that helped me take care of my family, and I was recommended by a friend, and I started driving a bus.
Never thought that was... Was never on my bucket list, but I'm proud to say I have a CDL and I can drive a 40-foot bus and it's opened doors that I never imagined. So through my tenure of the industry, I did bus driving for almost five years, and then I went into a supervisory role, which was dispatch of... over the bus system. And then I did that for about eight years. And while doing that and working nights, I finished my bachelor's degree, and then I never really knew if I wanted to go into management, but I took the leap eight years.
So about what? About almost, what, 13 years into my career, I finally took the leap, and it's transjected me through it. I did assistant manager, and then I've been manager within the room that I worked in for eight years as a dispatcher and now manager of transportation. And I've just been blessed and given opportunities to continue at the ladder in CEO role, which was definitely never on my bucket list, but I'm here.
Carol:
So you rarely hear stories of people who started at the baseline of the organization and rose to the top level to be CEO of the organization. That is pretty phenomenal, and I love that you know how to drive a bus. I mean, that's just... I don't know. There's something badass about that, though. I just...
Leann:
I agree. I agree.
Carol:
I think it's amazing. But not only that, it gives you such, I'm sure, respect throughout the organization because, one, everyone knows that you know exactly what they're experiencing, right, because a lot of times, people think people in leadership positions have no clue to what it means to be one of the worker bees within the organization.
But it also gives you an ability to really relate to the experiences and the challenges, the desires, the successes that people are having at every level of the organization, which I think is absolutely amazing. I mean, have you found that to be the case?
Leann:
Definitely. I feel like that's been a big... huge part in helping me be successful to this up to where I am now is being able to relate and understand what goes on out in the world now. The world has changed in the years that I have not been out there, but I feel like it has been a very key point to me being successful.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, and the fact that you have this... you've always had this underlying vision or purpose to really help people. And so helping to create an organization where people are seen and valued so that they can also see and value the customers and the community in which they serve, I think, is absolutely phenomenal.
You said something about stepping into leadership that you were like, "Eh, I didn't know if I really wanted to do that." What kind of shifted that for you to be able to make the leap from being kind of a frontline employee into management?
Leann:
That's a good question. I think at the time when I decided there was a leadership team in place that I felt like I could work with and aligned with their thoughts and beliefs. So that was a big part of it. And then just as I've said, opportunities arise, and why not? We'll see what happens. And growth, just wanting to grow and push myself into being uncomfortable, which is what I've found myself completely all the time now.
Carol:
Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. But I love that you said about aligning with people where the values were aligned, where you saw leaders that you could see yourself working with or connecting with that really opened your eyes and your pathway to do that.
Along your path of leadership, did you do any kind of training or support? I mean, I'm just curious. In your industry, how much kind of leadership development do you... were you able to engage in or is available to you within transit?
Leann:
I didn't have a lot. There was some minimal leadership training that was offered within the organization. But I was fortunate enough, as I said, the leadership team and my managers at the time or directors that I was able to work with. I felt confident and liked their values. So I was able to learn a lot from them and they gave me a lot of knowledge and guided me through my journey so I could continue to grow in my career.
And they saw more in me than what I thought. And [inaudible 00:08:11] a lot of things it's... a lot of it was pushing and saying, "You need to... You're going to do this." I was kind of voluntold that sometimes, but I did some kicking and screaming, but they saw something in me more than I thought than I saw in myself. So that was... that's my blessing there.
Carol:
Yeah, that is remarkable. And I think that is one of the core things about I like to say about People Forward-Leadership is the ability for not only you to develop within yourself but also to be able to help your people feel seen and heard. And it sounds like you've had that experience of being seen as someone who can step into higher levels and being kind of fostered and mentored into that space.
Now, I know you and I connected when you were at the COO level before you stepped into your CEO level and started our work together. But when you first stepped into your CEO role, as you were leaping into there, what were some of the biggest challenges that you felt you were facing, and how you felt our work together helped you to navigate that transition?
Leann:
Well, as you said, leap. That felt like it was a huge... I was leaping over a lake. It was really big. So at the time, the title chief and operations officer was intimidating, is like, "What does that mean? What is... What do I have to do?" And that is when I was like, "I need to learn how to embrace who I am as a leader because I'm going to be more in the forefront per se."
So that is where I asked for some coaching to help make myself be a confident leader of myself so I could lead a team. So that is when I felt like I found you and I was like, "This is who I want to work with." And still, to this day, I even say it to some team members of... on my team is, "It's just a title. You're still doing... You've done the job, the job, it's just a title change." So I've been grateful for that.
Carol:
That's awesome. That's awesome. And what were some of the biggest challenges in terms of your team? Because, as you moved into your CEO role, you also in some ways reassembled or not only inherited but also kind of developed and created a new team. What was that looking like for you as you stepped into that role?
Leann:
That was... It was a change. Because I don't know, it felt going from a frontline employee to a supervisory role, and that's a change when you supervise your... I can't. Sorry, I forget the word.
Carol:
Your peers.
Leann:
Thank you. Peers. And then again, at this... again went into CEO [inaudible 00:11:17] and at the executive level, it was kind of the same thing, but yet you have a bigger picture that you have to embrace while you're trying to lead your team. I don't just get to focus on one department. So it was a change for me to learn my executive team at a different level personality since I didn't... I worked along with them. I didn't really get to work with them and guiding them so much.
So it was... that was a challenge on top of me still learning to embrace my leadership role and being the people-forward mentality that I have and wanted to learn to embrace. But I've always felt like that's not the right mentality or leadership style you're supposed to have because what we've been conditioned to think of what a leader's supposed to be and has been portrayed in society.
So it was a big challenge. And learning to express what I want at the same time knowing that I want to give my team or the exec team their autonomy to be the leaders that they are because there're a reason why they're there and they're there to do a job. And it's not for me to do everything and do it all. So I just learning to not... The autonomy was easy for me because I want people to be who they are.
Just learning for me to know that it's okay for me not to know that I have to know and do everything. I have them as my partner, and we are hand in hand and walking forward to solve the problems together. And at the end of the day, yes, my... I'm the final answer, but I do incorporate input from them.
Carol:
I really love what you said about going from the traditional societal idea of leadership to embracing something that allowed you to come alongside your peers to be a support for them while still allowing them a level of autonomy and empowering them to be successful within their roles too.
Because it is challenging when you come from a peer level as a fellow chief to now someone who is in the leadership capacity, and I think you've done that beautifully. What were some of the kind of challenges that you found moving into this kind of style of leadership?
Was this embraced by your team? Is this something where it had a little growing pains in terms of accepting this kind of new way of leading as opposed to maybe a traditional top-down authoritative kind of approach that we see in our society usually?
Leann:
We've had some challenges, not negative. And that you know, not like a negative challenge of disarray, but I would say just a challenge of everyone... we're all finding ourselves right now. We've had some new members come onto the exec team as well, and then they're learning to fit in with the exec team that has been free for five-plus years.
So we're all learning each other's personalities and leadership styles and learning how to be authentic and communicate and realize that, yes, we all are not always going to agree. That's why we have this team, so we can have different perspectives, and look at the big picture at all possible angles, and make the best decision we can for this agency that we are responsible for running, serving our community.
Carol:
Yeah. And we've been fortunate enough to do some work together within that to really help move that... move forward in that direction to really support that. In terms of some of the things that we've been able to work on and do together, have there been things that have emerged to really be supportive of your leadership and of really helping the team move in that direction that you've... and the culture that you wanted to create there?
Leann:
Yes. I mean, I'm a big proponent of, we know why we come to work every day, but we need our why's. And so we established within our first meetings as exec team with you was our core values. We haven't had those. And it gives us our foundation of, especially with our communication amongst us, but within everyone's departments and with their employees, to be able to let everyone learn to be there... that it's okay to be your authentic self and to express your thoughts and ideas respectfully, but we will listen, but we're not going to... doesn't mean that we'll take it in.
And I think with having the core values, we all have them in our offices and it's being shared around the agency as well. And so that is our stepping stone right now that we're building off of and trying to... and learning to embrace and remember that we said that this is what we want. So we got to make sure to work at it and make it be a part of our everyday routines. So we're making progress. It's slowly but surely, but it's not a light switch, but I think different. And it's a journey and never be a destination, but it'll be a journey. So our journey-
Carol:
Absolutely.
Leann:
Is not good.
Carol:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Have there been any examples or initiatives or actions that, since establishing the core values, really helping to guide more open communication, having people show up authentically in terms of that work, have you seen that play out in any way that you say... you can be able to point to say, "Wow, I'm seeing that what we're doing is really making an impact throughout the organization?"
Leann:
I think it's slowly coming together. I've seen some more authentic conversations amongst the exec team that doesn't have to involve everybody.
If somebody has a question or a challenge, or I don't know a issue with how something was decided or how something took place, there's... [inaudible 00:18:07] starting to become more... be more comfortable to go in and talk to that individual about what led them to that path asking questions instead of assuming or involving others that weren't a part of the product, that solution, or problem.
So we're learning to, like I said, communicate with each other in a more authentic and meaningful way that will lead us to a better place as a leadership team.
Carol:
Yeah. And I've even heard from some of your team members that has trickled down in terms of their own teams, in their own people that they supervise and their leadership and their employees, that they felt more seen and had the ability to talk amongst each other and to share so that they're working more effectively together and more collectively together as opposed to any kind of siloing or bifurcation that may have taken place in the past, but really feeling like a community and coming together, which has been really exciting to watch and to see.
Leann:
Good to hear. Yes.
Carol:
Yeah.
Leann:
That's good. Siloes, we are trying to break those down. But the walls they start to build sometimes, and you got tearing back down. So it's a never-ending cycle, I feel like.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah, it is. Well, I mean what you say is a journey. I mean, we're all people. I mean, that's the thing about when you're embracing a people-forward initiative or framework, we are all messy as humans, right. And so it is contrary to what our traditional kind of models are that we see within organizations.
So allowing people the opportunity to find themselves within that as they are finding new ways to communicate and new ways to show up and new ways to do their work and valuing people in a different way makes a big difference.
And I love that you said you have the core values up as a model to be able to say, "Okay, we have something to refer back to how we want to show up with each other within the workplace." I'm curious about your own personal growth as a leader during this process. What skills or perspectives do you think you've gained over this time?
Leann:
Oh, I have learned a lot. Like I said, I'm a people-forward. I am more of the empathetic, the leader that... I am learning to be more. I just lost the word, but more, not open, but ready to authentic, be more authentic. Authenticity is my biggest thing. And I think I... for so long, like I said earlier, we've been conditioned to think that you have to be this heavy-handed you know everything and you have all the answers, and everybody just sits there and listens to you talk. And that's not me.
And I'm learning to embrace that that is okay and that is... there's nothing wrong with me like I always thought there was something. I don't have, I call, my two-year-old in my brain where I've... my deer in the headlights where I feel like I don't have... I have a answer. I need a answer right now. And I'm learning to say it's okay that if you don't have a answer at the moment. So I'm learning to embrace myself and who I am professionally. And it has helped me personally as well but to process.
I'm a processor. I like to be able to look at the big picture before, if I have to and I have the time, I like to be able to do that. So I have grown that way in helping me be able to express that and communicate that to others so that they understand that I'm not blowing them off or not applying myself. I like to take in the information, and then I will give you a surreal answer, and that you'll give me a few hours or 24 hours, depending on how big the problem is.
So I've grown a lot in that way and knowing to and also communicate that to my exec team and letting them... also as well as communicating my wants and letting them know that they do... I trust them. They do have autonomy with me. I full-heartedly believe in them and know that there's a reason why they're in this position. And like I said, we're working together as a team and not just a me show for the agency.
So we are doing great, and it's been great to be able to continue or build this mindful, people-forward culture that... within the agency. And like I said, I know it doesn't happen overnight, but I have seen some small progresses, and like I said, people have been able to feel like they can be their authentic self. So that's good.
Carol:
Yeah, that's really incredible. I mean, we talked a little bit about vulnerability as being a superpower, and what I hear you saying is by you being able to embrace your strengths and to show up authentically as yourself as a leader, that you've been able to create a space for your people to do the same thing.
Leann:
That is a very good way of my blubbering of doing that. Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Yes.
Carol:
Yeah. And being able to find their own ways of showing up and their own strengths so that they can also lend their brilliance to the organization in a big way. That's really awesome. That's really awesome.
Leann:
Yes.
Carol:
And that's a powerful thing. I mean, that is... it is why it's so important that leaders understand what they bring to the table because then it helps them to foster that within their team or within the organization.
And so I think that's brilliant. My final question would be, what advice would you give to other CEOs or new executives who might be considering taking on this way of leadership, considering both personal leadership support and broader team engagement?
Leann:
I would say if you can... if you're able to start, start as soon as you can. It's key to have the leaders, the executive team in line, and to ensure that your vision and thought is shared amongst them. So they are able to facilitate that down through their departments and down to the frontline.
It gives a strong foundation. Having personal coaching with you has given me a strong foundation, and I feel like it's given a good strong foundation within the exec team since we've started the executive coaching this year. So I couldn't say anything more than to start.
If you could, start yesterday if you had to, but do it as soon as you can, and you're able to, you'll see a difference and feel more confidence in yourself as a leader. And also it'll help your team flourish and be confident to lead their departments as well.
Carol:
Awesome. Very well said. I love it.
Leann:
And remember, it won't happen overnight. Take some work, but it'll come.
Carol:
Yeah, it's a new approach and I think one of the things that you mentioned earlier was that even in your own acceleration or climbing that ladder, if you will, into leadership, that you didn't really have that kind of training or type of support like this. It was just kind of watching and learning from other people or hearing from mentors.
So it's a new way. It's a new approach probably in something that's not very often found maybe within the industry or at least so far within your organization this far. So yeah, it will take a moment, particularly if you haven't done that work before or haven't had that experience before in your organization. It definitely is a journey. It definitely is a journey. It's not an overnight thing because people don't work that way.
And so, instituting something new is going to take time. And the fact that I love what you said about embracing the journey and the fact that you have the patience and the foresight to invest in something that you know is a process, but you know you could see the other side of it is very... I think is a very powerful position for a CEO to take, to have vision for their people and their organization that way. So kudos to you.
Leann:
Well, thank you. And thank you for helping me create that vision and make it come true.
Carol:
I love it. I love it. Well, Leann, thank you so much for being our first guest on The People-
Leann:
Yay.
Carol:
... Forward Leadership Podcast. I so-
Leann:
Thank you.
Carol:
... appreciate you taking the time.
Leann:
Yes, of course. Anytime. Appreciate it.
Carol:
Yeah. Awesome. Well, and that is it for this episode. Hopefully, you have picked up some nuggets and some insights that will be able to help you as you're thinking about stepping forward and implementing a People-Forward Leadership framework within your organization. And until next time, remember when your people thrive, organizations flourish. I'll see you soon.
