Carol:
Hello, hello, and welcome to the People-Forward Leadership Podcast. Today we're exploring leadership development in the transportation industry with a very special guest, a catalyst who's dedicated many years to training professionals across all levels of this essential sector. As the formal executive director of the National Transit Institute, Billy Terry has unique insights into the skill gaps affecting leadership in transportation and how a people-forward approach might address these challenges. From his conversations with CEOs to his experience designing specialized curriculum, he's going to share valuable perspectives on what today's transportation leaders need most.
Prior to his role at NTI, he has served as senior legislative representative at the American Public Transportation Association, Associate Chief Administrative Officer and Senior Federal Relations Officer at the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority in Washington, D.C. He has also served as senior advisor for Intergovernmental Affairs for the District Department of Transportation, and represented several transit agencies, municipalities, and regional development authorities.
So he is a leader in this industry, but whether you're in transportation or another industry, I believe that the discussion that we're going to have today will offer some insights, some takeaways that will hopefully enhance your own leadership approach or thinking about how to approach a people-forward leadership in your organization. So with that, let's dive in. Welcome, Billy.
Billy:
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me, Doc.
Carol:
Yes, yes. And so I would love to start off, I talked a little bit about your background, but I know you have a rich history from legislation, from being a lobbyist all the way into the work that you're doing today, and I would love for you to share a little bit about that history and how that has intertwined with the transportation industry and the work that you're doing today.
Billy:
Wow. It has certainly been a very nonlinear journey, this tapestry I call a career. I started in Washington, D.C. as a Presidential Management Intern, which I was sad to hear most recently now called the Presidential Management Fellow Program. It looks like the current administration is looking at terminating that program, which to me would just be a tremendous impact on leaders all across and future leaders all across the federal government.
But I started as a PMI at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and always had this theme of urban development, regional development till I spent some time at HUD, Department of Housing Urban Development, and then transitioned to some nonprofits who were focused on affordable housing. And then that's when I really got into the federal policy legislative space and had an opportunity to serve at one of the largest independent lobby firms in Washington, D.C. called Van Scoyoc associates.
And so we had an opportunity to focus on some legislation for HBCUs, regional community development entities and some transit agencies. And so I think that's kind of sort of when my palate got a little whet on transportation, and transportation in the sense that it's impacting communities and regions, moving people to opportunities, moving goods to people to assume those opportunities. And so from Van Scoyoc is when I dove ahead first into the public space, working for Mayor Fenty at the District of Columbia Department of Transportation, serving one of my very good friends who was director there. And we had an opportunity to focus on everything that was in the public right of way; trees, parking meters, non-federal aid, eligible roads, streetlights, everything. So literally when you walked outside in Washington, in the District of Columbia, DDOT had responsibility for everything you put your eyeballs on; curbs, curb cuts, alleys, everything.
Carol:
Wow.
Billy:
And as in most public entities, there's a tsunami of need and a teaspoon of resources. And so you have to figure out how you manage these extremely limited resources to tremendous infrastructure needs.
From DDOT, that's when I moved on to WMATA, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. At the time was probably the fourth-largest transit agency in the country, starting out serving the chief administrative officer as his deputy for about two years. And then for about the last two years, focusing on as their federal lobbyists.
From WMATA moved on to APTA, which is the Trade Association for Public Transportation, working on federal legislation from everything from Homeland Security on transit agencies to resiliency to greening our transit industry, electric buses, compressed natural gas buses. So for about seven years, I was at APTA.
And then finally had that opportunity to move to the National Transit Institute, which is housed in Rutgers University Public Policy School, where we were focusing on how do we train this generation of folks in the public transit space. And so we did everything from technical courses, from budgeting to procurement, but then the Federal Transit Administration, our funder, really gave us an opportunity, Doctor, to focus on this human capital development space. And that's the stuff that really, really gets me excited so we can jump into those opportunities that we had to focus on enhancing the human capital development of mid-level managers.
Carol:
Yeah, that is wow. I mean, your career, it always fascinates me when I hear it, and it gives you such a unique perspective, but I loved how you frame transportation is moving people, moving goods, getting them to their destination. I mean, it is such a massive undertaking, and it impacts people lives at so many levels...
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... that I don't think people really realize. And for you to see it at the levels that you have has been fascinating, and I'm sure it's impacted your ability to do the work that you've been able to do in the field.
Billy:
I would say so. A transit agency, if you just look at the top five transit agencies in the country, whether be New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, D.C., they are literally billion-dollar entities on the capital and operating side. And if you think about the functionality, virtually every occupation you can think of, there is law enforcement, there's civil engineering, there's electrical engineering, architecture, there's lawyers, there's marketing. When you think about an occupation and you think about a billion-dollar transit agency, there's not much... Did you say, well, do you have blankety-blanken? Yes, you do. Again, you have market folks, communications, lobbyists. Most of the large transit agencies, with the exception of New York, some have their own police force.
So again, tremendously multifaceted. And you think about the number of people that they're serving. I would be hard-pressed to think of any other single entity that has literally as many people transactions every day than a large transit agency. Literally the number of people who consume that product or service every single day.
Carol:
Wow.
Billy:
I can't think of many entities that does more.
Carol:
Wow, wow, wow. And so that takes us to what you were talking about before when you talk about people transactions and relationship to human capital management and really embedding that work within an industry that I'm sure spends a lot of time in safety and compliance and things of that nature, which are completely necessary since you're going to be...
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... dealing with people at that level. Tell me about the idea and the push toward developing that human capital management within the training programs that you were developing.
Billy:
Well, soon after I got to NTI, again, who was funded by the Federal Transit Administration to serve as the training arm for the public transportation industry. We were doing great work in terms of the technical elements of folks managing a transit agency, environmental justice, again, procurement, financial management, but having an opportunity that started out my time at APTA, quite frankly, to build relationships with general managers and CEOs of transit agencies, of large agencies, rural agencies, urban agencies. Some just did buses, some did buses and rail all across the country. There was a theme, and the theme was clearly we're underfunded. Clearly we have more responsibility than we do authority.
But the one theme was our mid-level managers are serving as one of the greatest hindrances in being efficient and effective. And I don't think that many of the GMs or CEOs I've talked to were saying it in a purposefully pejorative way. I'm just venting against their mid-level managers. I think, one, they were saying it because mid-level managers were the greatest volume of leaders in their organization. So you have your C-suite, even in a large organization that's probably limited from maybe six to eight people, your C-suite, but your mid-level managers. Now, clearly a mid-level manager in New York MTA is different than the mid-level manager in Toledo, Ohio, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Billy:
Shout out to Toledo. But it was that mid-level manager, that individual who wasn't C-suite or executive leadership, but managed a number of people. And so his or her inability to communicate effectively, to manage his or her emotion, to take charge of conflict amongst their team, whether their team was five or whether their team was 500, CEOs, were saying, "Billy, those are the bottlenecks. The inability to communicate effectively, writing and presentation form, those are the things that are really, really challenging my agency."
And so at NTI, we said, "Well, let's do our best to try to address that." And as you know as an instructor, as a presenter, as an executive coach, you have a limited time to do so much more than you really want to do. So you may have 12 things that you really, really want to get across in a particular course or a particular presentation, but you're probably only going to be effective in communicating three.
So when you're tailoring curriculum, it's like, we got to figure this out. So we developed a course. The first course when we dove into it, Doc, was called Transitioning from Frontline Employee to Frontline Supervisor. And it was this sort of theology, if you will, that I had is that if I'm a mechanic at DART, the system in Dallas, and I'm doing well at my job and I've been there for a while, I have some seniority in the union, and then all of a sudden there becomes an opportunity available and they say, "Hey, you're a great mechanic, so now we want you to manage other mechanics." "Wait, hold on a second, I just want to fix these breaks," and now instantaneously, because of your technical skill, now we want to put you in a managerial position. They had a lick of managerial supervisory training, but people get thrust in those leadership managerial positions.
And so we were specifically speaking to that. And so we had great feedback from that course. And what we found is people taking the course weren't just new to their managerial supervisory positions, but they were veterans, but who never got into the basic tenets of managing or supervising 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago. So they were hungry for conflict resolution, managing a multi-generational team, et cetera, et cetera, some of the elements of our course. So we tweaked the course to a course called Principles for Effective Management Supervision, called it PEMS, and just sort of dove in. And just some of the feedback that we got, stories from new supervisors to tenured supervisors was absolutely amazing.
And then the last thing I'll say is that what we really wanted to focus the course on was the reality that some people were thrust in leadership. Matter of fact, more people are thrust in leadership. They either volun-told, right? And so you almost have to build a bike while you're riding it. So if you don't have the characteristics or personal traits that are conducive to being a good leader, but you're already in the midst of that leadership role, what do you do? And so that's what we tried to do on some of the content of the particular PEMS course that we implemented.
Carol:
That's amazing. And how many people did you over the years run through that? I mean.
Billy:
So PEMS, we probably had anywhere from, I'll say, 19 to 23, 24 persons per course. It was a sixteen-hour course. Now, when we started it, here's the thing that was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, Doc, when we started it, we anticipated it being a two-day in-person course, and then COVID hit. So we immediately had to pivot and say, well, you know being an instructor, virtual courses has its place, but it's certainly not optimal to in-person for networking and et cetera, et cetera. So we end up doing it four hours a day, over four days for 16 hours, and doing it virtually, and nonetheless, still get tremendous feedback.
So I would say probably over the past four years or so, probably easy 1,200. Did it literally every month, sometimes twice a month. So I would say probably about anywhere from 900 to 1,200 folks have been through the iteration of the course that I put forth.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure you had a wait list for it. I'm sure people were-
Billy:
Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think you always have these challenges, again, because people are in the midst of their job, having them focus virtually or family life be lifing, work be working, right?
Carol:
Right.
Billy:
"Oh, I was able to go day one and three, but I wasn't able to go two, three, four and five, et cetera, et cetera." But again, tremendous feedback, understanding that many of these concepts we don't have a patent on them. So there weren't concepts that we were presenting to people for the first time, but framing them in a certain way, exercises that forced people to be introspective. It's like, you can walk in every day if you want Mr. or Mrs. Manager with your head down, people say good morning, and you just grumble. But you need to understand that has an impact on your ability to Lead. And so I think that was really, I think, some of the secret sauce on the course that really got people to be introspective throughout the course.
Carol:
I think that's great. And clearly there is a thirst for it. And I think you're right, the concepts aren't new concepts, but how often do we have the opportunity to engage with the concepts, to practice the concepts, to actually have some type of case study to think about what would I do if something were to pop up? And it's interesting to me that it took a moment for in these conversations while they noticed it was an absence in these people that they were promoting because they were great subject matter experts or great at their jobs or thrust into leadership, as you said. But this piece about, oh, but we need to train them on how to manage people seem to not be at the forefront.
As you think about the challenge within the industry, is that a common thought that that's an afterthought? Or is it fast becoming a forethought that you believe that it's like if we're going to put people over people, then we need to give them some tools to be able to be successful?
Billy:
Well, I think it's probably pervasive across industries. I don't think that public transportation is unique. Many of us come from generations was leadership was defined by sort of authoritarian, totalitarian, excuse me, rule. I say that you do it. That's what my mama told me. But when you're managing individuals, you assume... When you're managing individuals and you walk in your leadership by solely being an authoritative figure, not an encourager, not a listener, maybe a yeller or a screamer. And I think from a societal point of view, the lens as to which we look at our subordinates, not looking at them as partners, but solely subordinates. We are now probably for the first time in many, many, many centuries have all of the folks, all the generations are now in the workforce. So how do you manage that? And so you have various elements of various generations jockeying for leadership responsibilities.
And listen, every generation has its warts, every generation has its strengths. So when you put those strengths and those warts all together, not every Gen Xer is wonderful in technology, and not every traditionalist is horrible with technology. But again, and so I would seem to believe that if you look at other public utilities, and even in the private sector, still 60-year-old white men, probably, if you were to look at a curve of the demographic, it probably dominates it.
But in the transit industry, which is just so, I can't even think of another word, gorgeous to see, is to see some wonderful, innovative 60-year-old white men who are birthing leaders that are 40-year-old black women, that are 30-year-old white men, that are 40-year-old Asian American women.
Carol:
Wow.
Billy:
And now when we look across the diaspora of transit, still not there yet, but wonderful African American women who are running the system in L.A., the system in Denver, a friend who ran a system in Savannah, Tampa, African American woman, younger Asian American woman who runs the system in Dallas. So we're seeing this diversity of leadership, and then they begin to look whom they worked for previously, older African American men, older Caucasian men. So we're beginning to see this leadership being birthed by a number, by diversity of leaders before them. And again, I don't think that's unique to transit.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. No, you are correct in that for sure.
I know you said that you moved from face-to-face to the 16-hour course. Did you ever move back to face-to-face, or did it stay the 16-hour online programming?
Billy:
So for the principles of effective management and supervision, it continues to be virtual. One of the strategic decisions that we made, still not convinced it was the perfect decision. One of the things that we found, not just in our leadership courses, but in some of our other courses, when we start doing it virtually, we begin to touch a much broader spectrum of the transportation industry. The folks from small rural transportation agencies, Native American transit agencies on any reservations, because it was virtual, didn't have the barrier of airfare, lodging per diem to consume some of these courses. And so we were trying to balance that, the superiority of in-person, but the breadth and the depth of whom we were touching by doing it virtual. So that was sort of A, and so we continued to do virtual.
But then the other thing that we started doing is we started realizing, speaking about the diversity of the workforce, we realized that in a particular class, there was a diversity of professional experience. And again, as one who develops curriculum, if you have 30 people, probably a fourth of them have been in their roles one to four years, a fourth, four to... et cetera, et cetera. So their professional experiential levels are different. So rather than trying to shoehorn a particular curriculum across this diverse level of experience, we started tiering our courses, T-I-E-R our courses.
So we would have an intro course in transportation service planning and advanced course in transportation service planning and intro course in paratransit management, advanced course in paratransit. And we found even that in of itself, the engagement was totally different. So in the intro course, less folks deer in headlights because you were talking about basic fundamental things in paratransit management, but then profound engagement in the advanced course because you were talking about real world problems and by and large a group of people with a higher level of experience. And so that was another thing that we found that was significant in terms of engagement in our course delivery.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. So I know that you couldn't get everybody, right?
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
I mean, only so many people can get the benefit of what you were able to create there, the lucky ones that were able to come through that type of programming. So for those who are, for lack of a better way to frame it, kind of left behind or at agencies that either maybe couldn't afford to send their people or even with the online, didn't have access, did you have any recommendations or other things that you would suggest that transportation or transit companies do to be able to continue these conversations around communication and conflict and emotional intelligence and all these other skillsets that they need to develop in their leadership?
Billy:
Well, one of the things that we are tremendously blessed as a public transit industry, many 40, 50, 60-year-old entities providing leadership, whether it be my former employer, APTA, organizations like The Eno Center for Transportation, just a number of entities. But one of the things that we were encouraging is perfection is not the goal, but developing internal programs where you are utilizing the talent that you already had in your building or for low cost, no cost bringing in experts like Dr. Carol Parker Walsh or others to be able to hit some of these high notes.
So you may not be able to get 80 feet deep in conflict resolution, 80 feet deep in managing a multigenerational team, 80 feet deep in being an active listener for mid-level managers. But you may be able to get 40 feet deep. And so you may not be able to do a week-long course because folk got work to do, but you may be able to do a two-hour course every quarter. And if you're a large agency like in San Francisco or Boston or Houston, clearly being able to touch every single one of your mid-level managers through face-to-face engagement may not be possible, but possibly virtually.
So again, my grandmother used to say something better than nothing. So at least giving them some of the elements. And as a content creator, you know one of the hardest things to do is say, "Okay, if I got 90 minutes, but man, I feel like I got three days worth of stuff. So how do I take all this great content and put it in 90 minutes, but at the end of the day, people being fed with something when previously they were fed with very little?"
Carol:
I love that idea. I mean, what I hear you saying is what you were able to do, like you said, is feed them something, give them a starting place, give them something that they could take back with, wrap their minds around, sink their teeth in, and to be able to implement it. But in order to continue the conversation, I love this idea of what I would translate that to be micro-learning opportunity. So now how do you take it and continue to engage with it and continue to explore it and continue to grow in it so that you can go a little bit deeper with it within the organization so that the learning continues to grow because we're humans and we're messy?
Billy:
Understatement of the decade. That's the understatement. Which is why-
Carol:
And there's always things to learn, right?
Billy:
Always. And quite frankly, that is the biggest barrier to leadership. I was doing a class for Eno. I have a wonderful program called Eno/MAX, Multi-Agency Exchange program, and we were doing a session, and I was, well, I was feeling myself. I created this session, and the sessions had to me for super interactive, so I wasn't so much excited about the session I put together. I was excited about taking different things I heard before and ready to engage. And so we did a session called, So... You Want to Be a Leader?
Carol:
Love it.
Billy:
And we start talking. I was like, "All right, and who all aim to aspire to leadership?" 30 people in the room, nobody raised their hand. I was like, "Well, why y'all in this program?" And so I laughed about it for about two seconds, but the reality is the point that you made we're messy. And so if I have an option of getting a nominal increase in pay, if we can somehow put stress in units, if I'm getting $1,200 more a year, but I'm getting $10,000 of stress, I don't want that smoke, I do not want that smoke. And by human nature, we want to be concerned with who, ourselves. And a leader, your prime directive is to sacrifice, be concerned about, be proactive about others. Leadership in so many ways is unnatural, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Billy:
And we wonder why the leaders that we get who are not only un- or under-trained, but lack character because leadership is unnatural, is unnatural.
Carol:
I mean, and that's why the people for leadership framework that I always talk about, the first pillar for me is leader awareness and leader self-care.
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
So it's about understanding how to self-manage, self-regulate, and be very aware of what you need to be effective as a leader before you start developing others, which is the second pillar, then start working on the culture and impacting the culture. And I think that's often missed. And when you talked about emotional intelligence being kind of like the thing, the main thing.
Billy:
The linchpin, it's the linchpin, it is.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. Because if you can't manage self, then you won't be able to handle that $10,000 worth of stress that's coming your way because it's going to feel that way because you don't have a mechanism to be able to be aware of how to manage it for yourself and how to take care of yourself in the process. And that's the thing I think that's often missed in leadership development is so outward-focused on what do you do for your people, but there's not enough on understanding how to position yourself effectively as a leader.
Billy:
Right, right. And from a societal point of view. And again, deferential and respectful to those who came before us; parents, grandparents, aunties, fake cousins, everybody. But there are pathologies, human relationship pathologies that we've inherited that aren't conducive to advancement from a organization point of view and a team point of view. And so the normalization of those non-leadership pathologies, they still haunt us to this day. And not only do they haunt us, but they're normalized, and in some demented ways are praised.
I'm going to tell you. So the leader that cusses folks out and get stuff done, there may be immediate ramifications and manifestations of that, but the long-term impact of building other leaders or building a team who's ultimately going to rock with you when it get tough, that requires something, this much more long-term focus. And I just think that's part of what we struggle with, it's part of what we struggle with.
Carol:
Yeah, I agree with you, and I feel like since COVID, we've made some inroads because this concept and idea about self-care and how people are feeling, there's more of an interest in you as a person. And how, to your point earlier, how we grew up, our generation was like, you left that at home, you came to work to do a job, but now it's like, no, you're bringing all of it, so how do we deal with it? And again, to your point around multigenerations at work, this new generation is like, "No, I'm bringing all of that and I need you to handle it."
Billy:
Right, right.
Carol:
[inaudible 00:31:07].
Billy:
It's funny you say that, bringing all of yourself. And so for this same group of folks at Eno/MAX, I think the next year, and in a couple of other organizations, COMTO, the Coalition of Minority Transportation Officials, we had an opportunity to lead some sessions, titled it Being Your Authentic Self in a Workplace: Risk, Rewards, Realities. So to your very point, yes, you're to going to work-
Carol:
Love that. Wait minute, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait. Say that title again, say that title one more time.
Billy:
Being Your Authentic Self in a Workplace: Risk, Rewards, Realities.
Carol:
Love it. That needs to be a mandatory course.
Billy:
Well, hey, I think you start it, you start it. I'll give you the outline, and you go ahead and rock with it, Doc, because those conversations are multifaceted, that they're real, they are so many shades of gray, very, very few instances where things are black and white. In the course, when I delivered it, I brought up images of, I'm having a senior movement now, the sisters at NASA back in the day, Hidden Figures.
Carol:
Oh, Hidden Figures.
Billy:
Hidden Figures, Hidden Figures, and talking about what they endured for something much larger. Now, was Billy Terry trying to say, you should endure? No, but what I am saying that it is a very, very multifaceted, complicated matrix that one goes through. Jackie Robinson, should Jackie Robinson had to endure anything? And there are many, many other black and brown and women folks who were the first to do what they did. Am I suggesting what they endured, they should've endured it? But what I am saying, it's a very, very complex dynamic when you think about what you are enduring right now and what it means later on down the road.
Are you wrong for code switching? I don't know, I don't know. Well, I'm going to be myself every single time. Well, okay, I'm not saying that you can or you shouldn't, but what I am asking you is should we go through this mental analysis? Is there something to something be gained by strategically, strategically saying, take some of my authenticity, and I want to find the right word because I don't want anybody to misinterpret what I'm saying, take elements of your authenticity, your authentic self, and appropriate it accordingly, appropriate it accordingly.
So you certainly wouldn't act the same way at a high school football game that you would at the opera. Why is that? And that really may be who you are at the high school football game, but when you're at the opera, should you appropriate that differently? It's a very, very challenging complex. And I think that's what we got into when we had the course because people are getting up every day. Think about what's happening right now, and I promise you, promise you, Doc, I will not get political, but people are making some extremely courageous decisions about how they move forward these days, the decision to act out of courage, to see injustice, and to speak on injustice. And there's some people who at three o'clock in the morning looking at their ceiling saying, "I got this mortgage, I got three kids." And that internal struggle ain't the same for everybody.
Carol:
Right.
Billy:
Risk, rewards, realities, and we certainly know that there are rewards of being and building a team of authentic people, and when they move authentically, we know there are rewards to that.
Carol:
Yeah, I love those. When I think about leadership gaps, I think that's where I'm talking about is the gaps. It's not as simple. We talk about communication, we talk about conflict, generational training, emotional intelligence, all of those things. And conceptually, they sound simple, but the application and implementation is very complex because we're complex.
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
And there's so many different prisms in which we can look at a situation in order to think about how we want to approach a situation or deal with the situation. And that is, to me, the foundation of human capital management of people for leadership is how do you learn how to build adaptability, resilience, authenticity to create space for all of that while still achieving goals, objectives, staying safe, compliant, and everything else, and creating space for that?
I love the conversation that we've had because I think it points out that it's a challenging one, but it's a necessary one because...
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... you're leading people, people are the drivers of the engine. And we're in a very complex society, we're in a technologically-driven society, we're in a generation... There's so many things going on that we have to not put blinders on, but figure out a way to elevate the way that we are able to have these conversations and create space for people to be successful in this multifaceted workplaces that they find themselves in, so that in the end, they're contributing at the highest level to the organization.
Billy:
Yeah. And that contribution, Doc, is the essence of what we're talking about, and it's layered. So to the degree that you're able to encourage a young leader who works out of Water and Sewer Authority, who's an engineer, and 10 years later that engineer is confident, is innovative, that could have been the engineer who is in Michigan and is Flint still Flint if that progression had taken place, that teacher, the teacher who was in Detroit or Newark or Chicago, you name the school district, if the leadership was there to encourage that teacher who one day will be superintendent.
And so if you have that emotionally intelligent individual who has been through some wars and some battles, but who ultimately aspires to leadership, the tenor and the tone and the culture of the Detroit, and I apologize, I don't want to speak ill of the Detroit public school system, I'm really making the point that the manifestation of that leadership, it emits itself in so many ways that literally impacts people's lives.
At NTI, I would say, we are foolish enough to believe that if NTI can take an individual in a course and enhance that individual's skill, knowledge, and perception, that that individual goes back to their agency, and that agency is enhanced. And if the agency is enhanced, that the services they provide is enhanced, that the service that they provide is enhanced, that the neighborhoods that they serve are enhanced. If the neighborhoods that they serve are enhanced, then ultimately people's lives are enhanced. And I think oftentimes what happens is we cannot see that lineage ultimately to... because we never meet the people that we ultimately enhance. And I think that's part of what a leader's job is.
Carol:
Well, you just said it all right there.
Billy:
Hey, hey.
Carol:
I mean, that is exactly what it is, that's exactly what it is. When you steward the individual, you make an impact in the world.
Billy:
Absolutely.
Carol:
And that's what I hear you saying, and I think that's very powerful.
Billy:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Carol:
Billy, I mean, we could keep this conversation going, but I just want to say thank you so much for your wisdom.
Billy:
My pleasure, my pleasure.
Carol:
And your insights. It has been incredible what you shared.
Billy:
Absolutely. Hey, man, we out here in these streets. We just doing what we do, recognizing what our lane is and what our contribution is and what our chapter is, and there's some folks out there who's getting ready to write the next chapter.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. And creating space for that. Amazing, amazing.
Billy:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Carol:
Yeah. And I think what you shared, exactly what you shared is what's necessary, and I think it's the future. I think, like you said, with any industry, any organization with that way of thinking, it's not only going to change the individual, but change your organization, but really have a greater impact on who they're trying to serve. And particularly in this industry more than any other, I think, for sure.
Billy:
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Carol:
Well, thank you.
Billy:
Thank you. I appreciate the time. I appreciate you, my friend.
Carol:
Well, that is it for this episode. Again, Billy, thank you so much for sharing such valuable insights from your many years of experience, your expertise, your knowledge, and your impact in the human capital space. And as we've heard today, even in a highly technical and regulated industry like transportation, a people-forward approach still remains crucial to organizational success and I'm sure in yours as well. Thanks so much for joining me, and until next time, keep leading people forward. I'll see you soon.
