Carol:
Hello, hello, and welcome to The People-Forward Leadership Podcast. I am so excited to have a leader in the transit industry as my guest today on the podcast. Dr. Nadia Anderson is no stranger to complex systems. After earning her PhD in urban affairs and public policy, she built a career translating data into action, guiding strategy at tech innovators like Uber, AAA, and GM's autonomous vehicle unit cruise, and most recently serving as chief of staff and strategy at the Silicon Valley Leadership Group. Today she's Sound Transit's inaugural chief strategy officer, hired in January, 2025, to net planning finance operations into one roadmap as the agency opens three new light rail lines and launches its largest expansion yet. Nadia now oversees everything from government relations and board administration to an innovative lab that keeps Puget Sound's transit system future ready. Beyond the org chart, Nadia is a self-professed transportation nerd, and fun fact, a TaeKwonDo black belt, so don't mess with her, who believes that the real competitive edge comes from pairing rigorous data with deep empathy. That perspective makes her the perfect guest for our People-Forward Leadership conversation. Nadia, welcome to the show.
Nadia:
Thank you so much for having me. I am absolutely looking forward to our conversation and love that fact. The black belt is definitely telling that I'm a late stage millennial whose movie, the Karate kid, inspired a lot of us to get into the martial arts.
Carol:
I love that. I love that. I would love to start just really about your journey into transit. How did you get into the industry? What led you to where you are now?
Nadia:
The joke that I say is that it happened on accident. There were a number of random twists and turns that led me here. I started out by asking a series of questions which led me to grad school because my professor was like, "You want the answer to that? You know how you solve that. You continue to go to grad school." After grad school, I was looking for something where I could apply my curiosity, my love of data and research to a real world practical problem, and that's what led me to the transportation space. Inside of the transportation space, for those who don't know, you can do almost anything, from mobility, from data, from policy, from marketing, from communications, to even having spaces for the STEM and the sciences in there as well. So that's how I ended up in the space. I've been here for, and it sounds crazy to say, more than 15 years post-grad school working in this space, and I feel like every single day, regardless of the job that I've held, has been a new and a different and exciting one, so I truly love it.
Carol:
Where did you come before you landed here at Sound Transit?
Nadia:
I was actually based in Washington D.C, but I was a remote worker in Washington D.C. The organization that I was with is a trade association that represents the tech and innovation economy, and they were based in Silicon Valley, so the heart of nation, innovators, VC companies, et cetera. It was working on their portfolio there, setting the long-term vision, getting everybody moving and rowing in the same direction, but also being able to think about new ways to put a finer point on the impact that our member companies were having, and that us as the industry association were looking to amplify and do on our member company's behalf.
Carol:
That's pretty powerful. That's impressive. It's so exciting how you brought all of that. I love how you talked about transit. I've never heard anyone talk about all the variety of perspectives and positions and the things that you can do within the industry, which makes it feel like a perfect fit for you, bringing all of your skillsets and your education and your acumen into this particular workforce. How do you see this guiding you into your own situational awareness so that you are always staying very conscious of who you are within this space as you lead it and guide it into its next phase?
Nadia:
I think that the variety of experiences I had that led me here helped me stay extremely grounded but also extremely empathetic. I started to tell the people in my department, and it's crazy to think about, in some way, shape or form, I've done every single role that sits on my team. From doing more support coordination stuff, to being the person who was actually advocating and engaging with electeds, a good amount of comms, a good amount of marketing research. I've managed boards. It's one of those things where in hindsight, it was all coming together to make the perfect picture, but as I was taking those steps, it was very, very random. There's a story I tell when I explained to my parents that I majored in religious studies, and I had to let them know that I was not going to actually become a priest or go get an ED in divinity, but was learning the skills of communication, of being able to listen, being able to have a position and point of view and explain it. And since then it's been little stair steps and puzzle pieces that led me where I am today.
When it comes to the seat that I hold today, it helps me be able to engage in meetings from different angles. So when I'm talking to either my direct reports or skip levels or people who are just in the department, I know a little bit about the world and I can see how they fit in, but I also remember the questions and the type of engagement that I was looking for when I was in those roles. And so for me, it's being aware of those things, but also figuring out ways that I can meet those needs, and also being myself in the position in the seat, which is approachable, someone who likes to ask questions, somebody who likes to take a little bit of calculated risk and also leading by example and showing that I too experiment at this level. I too sometimes don't make the right decision or call, but I'm always trying to recover, always trying to continue to learn and grow, and always, I'll say, make new mistakes in that space too.
Carol:
I love that. I hear sometimes that in the transit space, most people who are sitting at upper echelons were operators and moved all the way through to where they are in the transit industry, but I love how you have taken disparate disciplines and industries and fields of study and utilize that to inform how you show up as a people leader, to improve how you communicate with people, how you inspire people, how you motivate and guide them to really inform how you are able to move all of these different areas in which you're overseeing, and moving them to a singular north star while supporting them at the same time. What practices are you using to keep the cross-functional teams that you manage aligned with that north Star?
Nadia:
It's, I'll say, a lot of communication, a lot of group meetings and a lot of creating space for question and answer, and I'll say authentic question and answer, so the spontaneous ones that arise, but also being able to get a sense of what's top of mind by being a nerdy researcher. So my department, we do qualitative and quantitative surveys about sentiment and a little bit of coding, open-ended questions where we get to read anonymous responses and figure out what trends are there. I think it's one of those things where it's an interesting mix, but also allows us to see various facets of how people are experiencing the agency, but also how they're experiencing their time on the team or their time with their manager and their understanding of where we're going. I think the interesting piece is being able to also eventually be able to baseline and then benchmark, understanding awareness.
Do you know where we're going? How's your communication with your people manager? How's your communication with me? What do you think about the agency? Where do you think the agency's going? And taking that real data and being able to figure out how to put it into action, but also making sure that we show that too to the department saying, "Okay, we were here in January, but here's where we are at the end of the year. Let's talk about what's happened in between that and where can we go together?" It brings everybody along because they know that their voice is heard, but it also shows that they have a very important and integral role to play in the agency's success in addition to the department and the division's success as well.
Carol:
I hear this theme for you, this curiosity that you have, and this analytical habit you probably developed from your doctorate work. Bringing this academic lens and journey, how does it guide or inform some of your executive decisions? How do you weave in this empathy and spreadsheets? You're getting this qualitative and quantitative data and not only using it to inform decisions, but using it to influence and empower your people too.
Nadia:
It's funny, if you ask my family, they would say my inquisitive mind goes back to childhood. I was always that kid who was asking, "Why does this happen this way?" Or, "Tell me about that." I also credit my mom a ton because she has the same way of thinking about things and would send us to the encyclopedias. You had a question about something, her favorite answer was, "Look it up, and then let's have a conversation about what you just learned and read," et cetera. And then for more complex topics, she would definitely sit down, we'd go to the library and walk through all those things.
The way that it shows up in decision-making is, I'm still very curious, to that point. My team and my colleagues know that I'm really keen on asking for a document. Is there a document that explains it and what's the background for it? And being able to read and understanding, get to a place of understanding and baseline understanding before being able to make a decision.
I would say the gift of working in the tech sector, which is very fast, is you learn how to get good and making decisions on imperfect information. Being able to distill down what's happening to know what it is that you need to know in order to be able to make a decision that is 80% of the way there, and then knowing the time sensitivities on whether you need to go ahead and make that call, or whether it is something where you say, "80% actually isn't the right bar. We need to actually be 95% sure that this works out." It's an art more than a science, but it is one of those things where I see it in practice, my colleagues see it in practice, of absorbing information, asking questions, and then not being scared to say, "I need to think about this for a second." Take 10 minutes, walk around the block, come back and go with your gut, go with all the information and data's telling you, but also trust all the experiences and inputs that you've gotten in order to be able to get you there.
Carol:
When you're making those, "We're 80% there, that's good enough" kind of decisions, how are you calming the nerves of those people who are like, "But wait, we should be at 100%." Right?
Nadia:
Yeah. I would say two ways. One is talking about the downside of the 20%. Nine times out of 10, the downside of the 20% is not existential and it's not something that you can't recover from. Nothing's going to break. You may have to fix it, but we're in your position to fix it, and that's what of calms the nerves.
The other part is one of the things that I believe truly, and it's a leadership style is, if it's my call and we're 80% of the way there and your inputs are in there, I take the heat if it doesn't go right, but if it's great, it's yours. You get to claim the victory on it. And that also has calm folks. So being able to see that their leader will stand in the gap and say, "I made this call. I'll figure out how to take whatever comes from it," but also knowing that I'll be there to work with them in order to address and correct it if it does become a situation where we need to maybe clean up something or maybe revisit something or maybe pull something back that went out into the universe that needs to be updated or addressed.
Carol:
Well, I think that's pretty powerful. I just want to reiterate what I heard you say that, "Listen, if it works, I'm going to give you the credit and if it doesn't, I'll step in and say it was my call." That is a powerful form of leadership that I'm sure helps to create a sense of trust and safety of a culture within your organization. How do you create this climate where leaders are feeling safe to disagree or raise red flags or admit missteps or propose bold ideas without fear of blame? It sounds like, one is you're saying, "I'll take it," but what else are you doing to help to really foster that sense of, "Let's go for it."
Nadia:
It's very funny that you brought up Taekwondo. One of the lessons we learned in that was leading by example. And so it's more than just saying. It's walking the talk of the stuff that you want to see. In meetings, my team will see me experiment and brainstorm and ask questions. They also will hear me say when I've messed something up, I messed that up, and here's how I'm going to fix it and making sure that I try not to make the same mistake over again. And by doing that, you see people perk up a little bit and are less shy about it. I think also too, knowing that I'm going to proactively bring my missteps to you and I expect you to do the same for me. It shows that you can recover from all those things and there are no hard feelings, and we're going to all learn and grow together.
And then I think too, having that open space. A lot of folks get uncomfortable when there's quiet and not time. Nobody's talking in a meeting. And so I'm okay with the sometimes uncomfortable pause while everybody is digesting, but it also creates this space for those who may be thinking about what they want to say to pipe up after they've gotten it in their head. That's the person who I am. So in certain meetings, especially earlier on in my career, I'd have a thought and opinion and I'd run it repeatedly in my head and I would wait for that quiet piece, make sure nobody else was going to say and make sure it was a good idea, and then I'd be able to feel comfortable enough internally to speak up. So I also try to create those moments as well where we're going to pause and the big voices aren't talking, so those who may have something to say can do it.
And then also elegantly in an artful way, being able to bring folks into the table by saying, "I know you've been working on this. You've done X, Y, and Z, which is really great." So creating and setting it up and then saying, "Do you have any thoughts on how we should think about this here, or does it supply there?" And that's also me paying enough attention and observing what it is that they're working on so I can bring them into the conversation with enough, I would say, cushion and padding where they didn't feel comfortable to say, "Okay, this is what I was thinking. This is my idea and here's why."
Carol:
That's amazing. And that, as you describe it, takes a tremendous amount of self-awareness and emotional regulation, managing your own thoughts and opinions while you are creating space for others to show up. What I heard you talked about was, there's transparency, there's vulnerability, there is an opportunity to give space for other people to shine and show up without it being forceful or forced upon them, and creating silence so that if other voices need to be heard, can chime up as well. And so not only that takes a tremendous amount of cognitive awareness on your own part to be able to do that, but you're also modeling that for your team, which is incredible, to help them show up in that same space. How has that been with the team of people that you're working with to be able to model that? Has that been a new learning or has there been some challenges with that?
Nadia:
Yeah. It's been an experience and a journey, I would say from a number of angles. I think the first one is that I present a lot younger than I am, and so in these meetings with folks who have maybe worked at the agency for 20 years or so, here's me now creating space for them to come and do it, or challenging or asking them to maybe move in a different way. So that's a lot. I recognize that that's a lot. I would say the other thing is, in the situations where psychological safety or culture is going through change, it's very much of actions over what it is that you say. So out of my mouth, I can say that I want to create an environment where you can mess up. I want to create an environment where you feel safe. People need time to see that it's more than just words in order to be able to engage in that space.
And then they also need to see and experience what happens when somebody does make a misstep, or when I make a misstep, how I handle it. And so it is a process that grows over time and you're putting in many deposits in the bank. I would say some people latched onto it immediately and were like, "Yes, okay, I've been waiting to do this, let's do it." And others have been cautiously skeptical. Like, "I'm going to see. She says this, but in practice, I want to see how this plays out for a couple of other people to see what the situation is." And then I also know that some may never feel comfortable within that space for a number of reasons, but it's on me to do what I can to facilitate the environment and hope that enough deposits, enough trust, enough grace is given for them to feel okay showing up in that regard too.
Carol:
I'm sure that as you are rolling this out, you're also hearing their feedback around it, and creating feedback loops is often imperative to creating high performing teams so that the communication is going both ways. What feedback mechanisms have you been able to implement so that you're creating, while you're doing this work, almost creating it like a learning lab that we're learning together, that allows us to share information, that allows us to improve as we are continuing to hit targets or meet results or deliver on projects and goals that we have.
Nadia:
I am apparently an early technology adopter. I didn't realize that I was. We incorporate a ton of tech in using our suite to do QR codes. Live feedback given during all staff meetings where word clouds are created in real time. I also am a fan of an anonymous survey. Being able to have a double-blind survey where we don't know who's saying what, there's no information collected, but we do get the feedback there. And then being able to transparently show, "Here's what people are saying, here's what we're thinking." We also did an all staff meeting where it was anonymous, but I would say a little bit more analog, where people could write the questions that they wanted on a post-it while everybody's moving around. So it wasn't clear who wrote what, but putting them there, and then also being able to sit down and me go post it by post it saying, "Oh, this is an interesting one."
Then I think people seeing that I wasn't shying away from the questions that were more challenging or difficult or complex, but also me saying, "I actually don't know the answer to this. I'm three months in, so I'm going to pin this one and we'll come back later to it." And then actually keeping my word and following up and answering the question. So it's been that to create those spaces to grow and improve psychological safety in that way, but also to continue to get real data. As a data person, I truly believe that bad data end means you don't get the good input out. And so I'm very flexible and fluid when it comes to creating spaces where I feel like I can get the best data that is, or people can feel as comfortable as possible sharing the really real and not just what they believe, they think I want to hear.
And then I think for me, because of who I am, making sure that I address what's really there, even if it is uncomfortable, even if it is challenging, because it shows that those are things not to be shied away from. They're being addressed, and that's the only way that you can overcome them. And then also too recognizing that some things I'm not going to be able to fix or give an answer to or you may not like the answer to it, but I'm still going to deliver in a manner that is respectful, that understands. I hear you, but also the decision is made, and as the executive, this is just going to be the decision and it doesn't discount your point of view or opinion, but just know that I'm weighing all these other things that are helping to shape it or that there are things that are happening outside of what you may see that are influencing the way that this is going to go, and it may not be what you think is the right call.
Carol:
That sounds like how you're balancing those hard metrics with those softer indicators of team engagement and well-being, right?
Nadia:
Absolutely.
Carol:
That sounds like that dance that you're doing to make sure that you have the data that's supporting, but doing in a way that allows for engagement and well-being and communication and engagement with your team.
Nadia:
I try to appeal to all styles. I'm a visual person, so I love a good graphic, I love a good word cloud or something that shows it, but I also know the people who are like, "Give me the numbers. What was the percentage of folks that said this?" I also know that there are folks who are like, "What's the story behind this? I need to know the context in order to be able to attach to it." In our engagements, we try to get various modes. We try to make them fluid where it's not only small group time, it's big group time, it's one-to-one time, it's et cetera. So everybody gets a little bit of something that hopefully speaks to what they need and also speaks to some of the questions that they may have.
Carol:
You mentioned something earlier about you present young, and so you're creating space for people who have been there forever and maybe physically or whatever, older than you. So I'm curious about how you're creating space for next generation leaders. How is that creating an opportunity for those next generation leaders to emerge in their voice and in their perspective and in their belief that there's an opportunity for them as well?
Nadia:
I believe in relationships. I don't think of it as mentorship or shadow of programs. It's more like getting to know people where they are. I have a rule, and it's probably maybe to my detriment. If people reach out and ask for time, I'm going to figure out how to give them time, because when I was coming up or when I was in different spots, I always wanted to have somebody accessible to say, "I'm trying to get to where you are, how'd you do it?" I'm very candid and direct in those conversations when asked. I've been asked, "How old are you?" And I have no problem telling how old I am. People are like, "Well, what jobs have you held to get here?" I'll tell them that as well. People may have seen that I may have moved around a little bit. And so I give them all the things it is that I know.
I think that's the example set by my parents. My parents were always very upfront. They gave us everything that they had, meaning, knowledge, information, and so I don't believe in holding those things. I also believe in sharing the cheat codes that I know as well. So some folks were like, "Well, I've been looking to get promoted and I'm stuck here, how do I move?" And so being able to say, "Here's what I've done or here's what I see." And then it was very, I'll say, heartening because in a conversation people actually bring, "I'm looking for my next step. I tried to do this, it didn't work out. How should I be thinking about it and handling it?" And then me also being comfortable enough to share, been there before, gotten laid off before, went up for promotion, it didn't happen before, but here's what I took from it and here's how I'm thinking about next steps, but also here's how I chart out my own life." And they're just like, "Okay."
So it's also showing that everybody has their own individual experience, but they're not necessarily unique. Somebody at some point in time has had something happen to them that is very, very similar, where you can either learn, you can experiment, you can brainstorm from it, so being able to share. I'd say that the last thing on that is, it's a little bit of bias. I see myself in a lot of folks and I see some of the things that I may have been looking to do, trying to do. And so in those situations, I do try to proactively make myself available or to reach out or to just again, help unlock and change opportunities for folks as well. Because I do know that I'm in a seat in a position of power to be able to address some of the things that work the best for my point of view various times, and doing what I can to be able to work collaboratively with my partners in leadership, or to work on my own to be able to figure out how to fix them.
Carol:
That's such great insight. What I hear you saying is that you are connecting to people on a relationship level, on a human level. It's really a human-centered approach. It's not about how are we different or what makes us different through age or experience or things of that nature, but what are the experiences that we share that could give you some insight or glean some information for you that could be helpful in your trajectory in terms of what your career is. And so having that really human-centered approach to connecting or mentoring or sharing seems to be a way that you're breaking down these kind of barriers where people are trying to categorize you in generations or things of that nature.
Nadia:
Absolutely. It's a hard thing to do being I guess new to the region, being new to the agency, but also my department has 171 people in it, and so I also believe very strongly in fairness. If 171 people over the course of time reach out, then I'm going to sit down and talk to 171 people. I think it's also that word of mouth. People are like, "Well, Nadia is accessible. If I send a note, she's going to reply or she's going to see if she can find time" type of deal as well.
I think continuing to do that is the way to build a strong team, but also a strong culture on a team, but also to get everybody engaged and aware of what's happening and moving in the same direction. Because at the end of the day, you want to like your colleagues, you want to know that you have their back, they have your back as well. There's a lot of human component to it. One of the folks I worked with early on, they were like, "You spend the majority of your life as an adult at work," which is true. It's a thing. And so you want it to be an environment where you can have a conversation, where you can be vulnerable, where you can work on good stuff together. And so I look to figure out ways to do that.
Carol:
Looking three or five years out, what are some of the structurals or rituals that you want to keep engaging in to foster this people forward culture that will help Sound Transit remain a place where people love to be there and feel engaged and could bring their highest level to the table?
Nadia:
For me, it is empowerment when it comes to decision making and people owning the things that they own, but also a culture of feedback, both constructive and positive, and having both things be taken in the spirit that they're given, and being able to be action done. When it comes to empowerment, it's everybody knowing that, to the point, you own your stuff, but you also can make a mistake. It's not the end of the world. That's learning. That happens, but also giving opportunities to learn. Because we are growing as an agency, we are doing a lot of things that have never been done before, and we're looking to do it in a manner that truly reflects who it is that we are.
And so there's no playbook for those things. And so there are going to be some experiments that happen. There is going to be a lot of innovation, there is going to be a lot of new, and I want people to own what it is and say, "Okay, I see something coming. I can actually put a plan in place to be able to address it." Or, "I have an idea. I can figure out how to work with my counterparts and colleagues to execute it and get it in and live." Or, "There are two roads that are diverging and it's on me to figure out which way to go. And I feel like I know enough to be able to make the decision on behalf of the agency, on behalf of the division to be able to move in that direction," and knowing that they're trusted and they're supported to be able to do it.
The feedback piece is, I think the feedback is a gift. That's the only way that you learn. And so I know I have my own idea about how things show up and go and how I come off, but it doesn't matter if it's not true, so I need to ask people, "How would you experience that? Did you understand the communication? Were there ways that I could have improved it and being open to it and being able to adopt it and not necessarily hearing it and thinking that there was something wrong with my performance or something wrong with me as a professional." And then also actively seeking it. Not only giving it, but also actively seeking it out and asking the questions to get to that real about, "Was this actually good? Did this happen in a way? Ways that it can be better."
And then the mind frame that they could always be better. You're never done growing, you're never done learning. And so if it was flawlessly executed, you got the right outcome. There is still a lesson in there somewhere about what you could do that can make it a little bit better. And so being able to also have that culture embedded. Three to five years out, those are the two things that I plan to continue to work on and hope to see come to life.
Carol:
That's amazing. Empowerment and feedback. We used to have a culture in leadership that we're trying to break out of. And I see it happening a lot more post-COVID than it was in the past, where people are becoming more people-centered, where they're seeing that it's not just about delivering the results and driving your people to deliver results, but if you actually work hand in hand with your people and you're creating a culture, as you talked about, of empowerment and feedback, where you're hearing from your people and supporting your people, that you actually can deliver on the results at a much higher level than you would before. Would you agree with that? Would you say that's something that you've seen in terms of your own leadership and what you're trying to create there at Sound Transit, as the way to really move to achieve those high end goals that the board has set or the amount of ridership you need to have or things of that nature? All of those outcomes that are why you have a transit system, but to hit those, you have to first have your house in order?
Nadia:
No, 100%. You have to have the house in order, you have to have the culture in order, you have to have the structures in order, but you also have to have the right vibe in order as well. And that's something that takes some time to grow. This is recency bias because I was reading the book called Original Sin, which talks about the Biden administration, what happened, but it talks about a larger issue, about group think, and also what can happen when there isn't that same type of psychological safety or safe space to be able to call out things that they may see coming or call out the question because of fear of retribution and things of that nature. It's a thing that's played out a lot in the tech community. There's tons of Harvard Business School studies about what happens in certain tech environments when you have group think, when people are shy and unable to call out issues. The same thing has happened in the auto industry as well, that has led to massive changes.
And so for me, it's being able to get that house in order, create those things in the way for where we are now, which is different than where we are when we've started, but also recognizing that we are in a growth and a culture change and an organizational change. The world is different post-COVID. And so even though they existed in different ways, they need to exist differently now based on where we are today and where we plan to go. And if those things are not in place, we lose the opportunity of being able to deliver on the promise, both for the region, both for the public, both for the cities and communities that we want to serve. And I think that that framing there has been something that has been very compelling to people inside, because I will say everybody here cares a ton about the mission and they have a strong desire to be able to do it right.
And so being able to think about it in the situation of where we're going and what we need to do in order to be able to get there, is how I intend to continue to get everybody on board and continue to bring various pieces of the agency and the organization that now sit in my department together to be able to work in this new unified way in a different way, but also that balance of honoring what we did in the past, but also recognizing that the road ahead is a different road ahead that we're building at the same time, that doesn't necessarily exist. So it makes sense to pick up new tools, pick up new ways of moving along the way.
Carol:
That's so good. That's so good. Nadia, I want to thank you so much for pulling back the curtain on how you're weaving strategy, data and empathy as you work to develop a people forward culture there at Sound Transit. Thank you so much.
Nadia:
This was absolutely my pleasure. I enjoyed the conversation. It made me appropriately nostalgic about a number of things. So it's exciting times.
Carol:
Well, I want to see, are there any final words of encouragement for leaders aiming to put people first in terms of building long range strategy at the center of their growth?
Nadia:
The thing that I would say is something that I've been trying to remind myself, is that these things take time. So give yourself grace, take the time, know that there will be fits and starts, but change doesn't happen overnight and you're not going to get it right, but the important part of that, you keep putting one foot in front of the other and continuing to walk and make progress.
Carol:
Perfect. Well, on that note, we will end it there. I want to thank you choosing to take time out of your day to join us, and I want to thank Nadia for taking time out of her day to share her wisdom and insights with us today. Thank you again Nadia. And until next time, remember, keep leading people forward, and I'll see you soon.
