Carol:
Hello, hello, and welcome to the People Forward Leadership Podcast. I am so thrilled to have one of Transit's most dynamic leaders joining us today, Lori Kaikini is the executive director and CEO of HART, which stands for the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation, where she is responsible for the nation's first driverless and fully automated commuter light rail system. Lori is a proud graduate of Kamehameha Schools and the University of Hawaii with a background in mechanical engineering and a license in civil engineering. And before stepping into her current role, she led Honolulu's Department of Environmental Services overseeing more than 5 billion in wastewater and solid waste projects.
Since taking the helm at HART in 2021, Lori has been steering one of the most complex infrastructure projects in the country, balancing engineering, governance, community expectations, and political pressures while building a culture of resilience and accountability. And recently she was honored by COMPTO with a woman who moved the Nation Award, recognizing her as one of the few women leading a major US transit system.
So Lori, I am so excited and honored to have you here with us today, and welcome to the show.
Lori:
Oh, thank you very much for having me. So I know my last name was a mouthful, so it's actually Kahikina-
Carol:
Kahikina. Kahikina. Thank you.
Lori:
It's a native Hawaiian name. But you did okay.
Carol:
Thank you. I was practicing, and I'm so sorry I got it wrong.
Lori:
It's a mouthful. I can't pronounce some European names with all the consonants.
Carol:
Right. Yes. So thank you for that, grace, and thank you for correcting that because we want to make sure that it's correct. So I would love to jump in and ask what led you to HART and a career in transit, considering you don't have a background in transit.=, So where did that come about?
Lori:
I do not. I do not. It is really a remarkable story as you discussed my background. So I was in charge of all of the sewers and the trash here on the island. It's not very glamorous. I loved it. And when I was at ENV, the Department of Environmental Services, I actually was clashing with HART because they needed us to let them come in to put in their columns and do their utility relocation, but I was protecting my sewer assets because they were not following design standards and protecting ours.
And it wasn't just me, it was also Ernie Lau, the Director of Board of Water Supply, and just at odds with HART. And fast-forward, I'm a very religious person. Normally I'm wearing my cross ears, but I didn't wear it today. But I'm a devout Catholic, and there's no other explanation other than God pointing me in this direction, and it just doesn't make sense other than that.
As you said, I don't have transit experience, but I do have experience with construction here in Honolulu. It is unique. We are an island community, and having to build major infrastructure here on the islands is different than other places on the mainland. We have to ship everything here, all of our resources, all of the equipment. So it is different. And so my experience is with removing the utilities out of the way. And this is exactly what we're doing right now. We're moving the utilities, we're doing government contracts, and we're building a bridge.
And so my background is I am a civil engineer, and so it is, like I said, there's no other explanation other than divine intervention of here I am leading one of the biggest infrastructure projects in the state of Hawaii, in the history of Hawaii, and it's quite exciting.
Carol:
Wow. Well, and you clearly were a person for the job because you not only got it accomplished, but have done probably the unthinkable in a lot of ways in terms of moving the organization. And I totally understand about wearing-
Lori:
Ah, you go there you go.
Carol:
Yes. Every day just to... I agree, some things can't be explained, but they're divinely interpreted and appointed, and so you just kind of go with that. But clearly you had what it took to take the organization from where it was to where it is today, which is so awesome. So in our People for Leadership framework, we always start with the self-awareness, because leaders' clarity about their own style and their idea of who they are as a leader and what it means to be a leader can shape so many things.
So what have you learned about yourself since stepping into this role, and how has it shifted the way that you lead, maybe compared to other places or earlier in your career?
Lori:
Correct, correct. No, it's very, very different. So here in Hawaii we have a term, it's called titta, meaning you're out there, you're fighting and you're blaring and you want to... Yeah, everything's a fight. And that's how my style was, very hard.
If I could swear, I'm a hard ass, I still am, but you become an element of your environment, or should say a product of your environment. And so when I was dealing with environmental services, there's about 1,100 employees, majority of them are blue collar male workers. And so when I came in, I had three black marks against me. I was young, female and engineer, talking about sewer and solid waste waters is like, "Oh God, you have this young female engineer trying to tell us how to do our jobs."
And constant attacks by my staff, the employees and the unions. And so I had to be tough. And fast-forward, coming here to Hart, it's all white collar professionals and so a little bit different. And so I did not have the same style of managing that type in that type of environment versus where I came from.
I'm still tough. I'm still tough, especially dealing with the contractors, holding everyone accountable, not just my staff and the contractors, the consultants. I mean, even myself, it's just softer, a little bit more compassionate, a little bit more understanding. But when it's time to be tough, I will be.
A couple of years ago, I had the worst Christmas of my life. One of my top managers, he got upset at me about something. It was administrative, something to do with a leave app. And he snapped and said that, "Everyone hates you here, because it's like you micromanage." And yeah, and so that was a turning moment for me too. He told me this on Christmas Eve and I was curled up in bed crying like, "Oh my God, my whole staff hates me."
Carol:
Wow. Yeah.
Lori:
I don't know how true it was, but I took it to heart. And I have, even since that conversation changed even more how I lead here at HART. When I first came in, and this might address one of your questions in that you might ask is what did I do?
One of the first things that did coming here, did do a lot of streamlining. And so I terminated of the city staff, maybe about 45%, and of the consultant staff, about 30%. And so I did that because we did not need a lot of the staff that we were paying for. This project was in trouble, way over budget, way delayed. And so I needed to cut costs.
And so the fear from everyone that, okay, I'm going to terminate you at any time, was weighing heavily on the team. And so to help with that, I started to do one-on-one quarterly meetings with my staff to start to learn who I am as a person. I know I'm the CEO, and it could be intimidating, just the title alone, but I'm just another human being. I have faults and I want to work on them and improve. So I think that helped with the temperature, bringing it down that...
And you can ask me anything, let's not... I even had these things we called mini safaris, and I would grab about 10 people of my team at a time, buy pizza, we'll go sit in a conference room and let's just talk story about each other. I don't want to talk about work. I don't want to talk about issues. It's you as a person, me as a person.
Here's my background. I'm divorced. I have three boys. I have a horse. I have two dogs, volunteer at church. So what about you? So definitely have had to change my style as I mature in my career.
Carol:
Wow, I really love that. And I love how you said that you're a product of your environment. And what I am hearing you say about that is that it's not just about you, and all about how this is the way I lead, so it doesn't matter where I go.
Lori:
Take it or leave it.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Lori:
That's how it was at ENB. Take it or leave it. This is how I am. You don't like it, beat it. That's not the correct way.
Carol:
Yeah. But looking at your environment all... Kind of like it's a mirror. So how is it reflecting back to me that I need to show up in a way that's really most productive and useful for where I'm at right now?
Lori:
Correct. Correct. As a mother, I have three sons, and that's how I am here at work. Firm, fair, but consistent. But you still need to morph your style to the person that you're dealing with. So somebody who's a servant employee, they thrive on, "Okay, I want to help you, Lori, what can I help? Give something to do, give me a deadline and I'll get it done."
In my old department, I don't think I have it here, but someone who's lazy and just wants to get by on the bare minimum, okay, I'm going to treat that person a little bit different that, "Y"ou need to be in my office every Friday. Here's your task and you're going to get this done. If not, you're no longer going to be part of the HART team. So change your management style based on the personality of the team member.
Carol:
I love that. And to me that's really foundationally to what it means to be a people leader is that it's about the people that you're leading and not just you as leader. And having that awareness taking and being able to take in feedback. I mean, I know it was hard to hear that.
Lori:
It's painful.
Carol:
Yeah, it's painful. But the fact that you actually reflected upon it, like you said, whether it was true or everybody felt it, it was a moment of reflection for you, which I think is such a powerful way to grow as a leader when you're leading other people.
Lori:
Absolutely.
Carol:
So amazing. I love that. So the Skyline Rail project isn't just about rail lines and stations. It's really about shaping how Honolulu moves for decades to come. How did you help your team stay focused on the bigger impact while also managing the daily details, like keeping mission and vision anchored in the day to day while you were, because that project, there was a lot of conversation. You were in the news a lot around-
Lori:
Yes, a lot of negativity. And so yeah, even coming here, a lot of my family, my friends, my colleagues, "Why in the world would you want to step into that?"
Carol:
Yeah. The reputation I heard you talk about was not the best.
Lori:
Oh my gosh. It was terrible. And I just felt I think I could make a positive impact. And if I can't, well okay, at least I tried and I'll move on. But my colleagues were like, "This is professional suicide. You might kill your career." I said, "Well, we're at rock bottom. I can only go up."
My previous role is very public, very public. It was constantly in the media, but nothing like here at HART. I couldn't sneeze without being on the front page of the newspaper. And yes, all negative. And so just to your question, when I meet with my team, so we call them "Ohana" is family.
So whether you're city, whether you're an embedded consultant, it doesn't matter. We are one team, one heart Ohana, and I meet with them every month and explain some of the issues that are going on, so they're not having to find out in the media.
I did a survey, that was one of the biggest things was, "Why do we have to find out what's going on in the media? We should be the first to know." And they're absolutely right. So we started scheduling these once a month, all-hand meetings to let people know what is going on.
And when I was doing those mini safaris, one comment from one of my employees actually broke my heart. He said, he's embarrassed to admit that he works here at HART. And I took it literally to heart. I said, "Then that's my job. That is my job to change our reputation so that you're proud to work here. You're proud to wear your HART t-shirt, your logo, and tell your family and friends where you are and what you're accomplishing."
And I believe we've accomplished quite a bit. We always have a long way to go to improve our reputation, but at least once a week, I kid you not someone in the public will stop me on the street, at Costco. I've even been at the airport in the elevator, and someone will stop me and say, "Thank you for what you're doing, you and your team on this project. Please continue your good work."
Whether you're a fan of the project or not, you can see that this New HART team is making a difference. We've opened the first segment. We're about to open the next segment. And the culture, the number one thing that I've taught to my Ohana here is every decision you make is in the best interest of the taxpayer. It's not me, it's not our board, it's not for the mayor, it's for the taxpayers. We are 100% tax paid, whether it's federal, state, or city.
And it's not necessarily the cheapest, right? There's a term here also in Hawaii called Pake. It's a Chinese term, meaning we're cheap. I want to save as much money as I can, but it's not necessarily always the right decision. It's what is in the best interest. And it's written all over... It's our mission and vision is written all over our offices here at HART. And that's what I try to keep people grounded that yeah, we're going to get negativity. The media, a lot of the media has turned around and are very supportive. There's still one or two out there that takes cheap shots at us, but I disregard that. We know we are doing what is right, what is in the best interest of the people and they can try and pick it apart, but we're making the best decisions we can at the time with the information we have. Keep your head out and just keep plugging away.
Carol:
I love that. I love grounding that family, that Ohana, right? Am I saying that correctly?
Lori:
Yes, you are.
Carol:
I think that's amazing because to have someone go from, I'm embarrassed to wearing my shirt to now being proud of doing that, it just shows how it's so important to build from the inside out because then they become your advocates.
Lori:
They're the champions.
Carol:
They become champions. And so now you have... There's no greater brand recognition than the people that work there to be able to speak positively about what they're doing and the impact and grounding it into every decision we make, it's for the people. Wow. I think that's really powerful. And to make that change, I mean, that's incredible. That's incredible. It's one thing to get the public's opinion, but you're working side by side. That's pretty amazing.
Lori:
Correct.
Carol:
Yeah. And speaking of which, we know that culture isn't built by accident, is designed by leadership. So how you go about... I know you said you did a lot of streamlining, so how did you go about assessing and building your team and what practices are you putting in place to ensure this collaboration and accountability across such a complex system? I mean, I am hearing the safaris, I'm hearing the Ohana. Is there any other things that you've done to really help bring that together?
Lori:
Yes. And so from day one, when I started, we were in the heat of COVID. So imagine I couldn't even meet face to face with my Ohana. And so there was about 180 people online. And again, it's a mix between city employees and consultants, embedded consultants. They're here in our offices.
And I made it clear for the first three months, I'm going to analyze everybody. Everyone is to submit their resume to me, their position description, what they're doing. And you may not have a job come March 31st. I will do all the streamline one time, rip the bandage off and you'll know.
And so that's what I said, the fear after that, everyone kept thinking, "Oh God, am I going to have a job?" So we did the streamlining, but that still does not mean if you're here, you're guaranteed a job.
I expect high performance from everyone that is here. When I first came, again, it was difficult to get... It's always going to be difficult to hire people. Right now it is the employee's market. They can have the pick of where they want to work. But it was even challenging here to get people to even apply because of the HART factor. Our reputation was so bad.
But now it's the opposite where I have quite a bit of people applying because I want the culture here at HART, to your point earlier, you should be proud to work here, and it is a privilege to work here. I only let in the best. And so I personally, depending on the level, interview people, and I think I'm a pretty good judge of character, but if there is a mistake made and you're not quite the right fit, we will not retain you. In the past, HART would keep everybody and high paid consultants, they were each paid about $400,000. Plus, you add on the overhead and profit of that, that's a 1.5 million employee.
So we no longer have that. But if you're not the right fit, you will not be retained. And so for example, we needed a high level manager and we recruited them through a consultant, and I didn't even meet him. He was coming in for his first day and my staff came up to me, my other executive leaders, and said, "He's demanding to meet with you. He's fine with the pay, but he wants a higher level title and he wants to meet with you and tell you how he thinks you can do a better job." I said, "I don't even need to meet with him. Tell him turn around and get on the plane because he's not part of this team." I don't need arrogance like that.
As we discussed earlier, everyone can improve. So I am fine with feedback, but you just got off the plane and you're going to tell me what to do? And I said, "I don't need that. I don't need the arrogance, and I will not tolerate hiding things and lying." I have terminated at least maybe four people now, including a high level managers, that if I catch you lying, I try to leave it to my executive team to who you want to keep and who's not performing. But there are some things that there's just no tolerance. Once I find out that's it, you're done. You can't redeem yourself after that. And let me make it clear, and we tell this to the team when something like this happened at a high level, again, I don't want the fear to think that I'm headhunting. I'm not.
So we explained to the team with still keeping confidentiality that the culture here is open, honest transparency. Everybody makes mistakes. Even myself, I make mistakes. It's how you deal with it. Own up to it. If sorry, apologize about it, and this is what I'm going to do to fix it, and this is what I'm going to do going forward to prevent something like this happening again. We're good, we're good. Let's move on.
But when you lie and say that, "Oh no, I didn't do that," [inaudible 00:22:19] it's so hard with our reputation with the public, we're working so hard to change the perception of HART. If I have somebody lying internally, that just causes so much chaos because we're taking your word as gospel. And me publicly, I'm going to speak publicly about information you just shared with me. All it takes is a split second to lose that credibility again.
Carol:
Yes, for sure. Well, and to create, in order to have that open, honest, transparent communication, you have to get rid of the fear of being able to say, "It was me. I messed up. Or, "Here's what I said, I got that wrong." And so it's important to create a culture where people feel safe to do that. And so that's amazing that you have that there, for that to be able to exist for people to be open and honest and not fearful. And you're right, because if people aren't honest about things, then it all ultimately comes back to you.
Lori:
It does.
Carol:
So for sure. I love that. And credibility is so important both internally and externally.
Lori:
Correct.
Carol:
So how are you helping both emerging and experienced leaders grow in their own ability to coach and to lead? How are you leaving your legacy in that next generation of leaders that are coming up behind you within the organization?
Lori:
So I do mentor. As I give different presentations, people will come up to me and ask, "Will you be my mentor?" I say, "Oh, absolutely. Are you sure you want to learn from me? Maybe what not to do." I definitely share my mistakes and what I learned from them. But within my HART Ohana, I have a top layer of executives and they see how I interact and work with not just internally, but externally with our stakeholders. And so I'm hoping they can see, they learn, and number one thing, we need to be humble.
When I was on the other side in another city department, again working with HART, very arrogant, it's, "Get out of my way. I'm the biggest infrastructure project in the state, and we dominate. "It's like, yeah, that's not how it works. And so since I've come in, I bring prior relationships with me. And that is so key. The successes that we have made in the last few years is really it's the relationships that we have with whether it's other city departments, state departments, federal, public, the media, the politicians, I need everybody's help. And so that's what I teach the culture here at HART. We are humble. We are to ask for help. And we're not always going to get the yes, but at least they'll say, "We can't do this, Lori, but how about this?"
And we try and work within that, but try again, teaching my team that this is how you deal with our team internally and externally. We are servant leaders. And so we are to again, be very humble, but still you need to hold people accountable, to do your job and do what is right for the taxpayers. And yeah, I try to lead by example and hopefully they're picking up. Because I'm not mentoring my team per se, unless if I see okay, how they handle that meeting, let's come into my office and maybe I would've done it this way. But everyone has their own style. Some of them, there's a couple of my team members that they're hammers. It's like, okay, we have a very young team of professionals. And so the hammer doesn't quite work with them to coach and mentor, but still hold that line, hold that accountability there.
Carol:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, it's clear you are a strong leader, which I think is, I could see why people want to be mentored by you. So let me just put that out there. But transit for a long time has been a very male dominated industry and we're seeing so many more female leaders stepping up and taking charge. And I'm just curious about as the first woman and the first native Hawaiian to lead HART, how has your perspective influenced... I personally believe women lead differently, women lead holistically, in my opinion, and which makes a big impact. And it could be an adjustment in an industry.
I mean, you came out of a very hardcore male industry. You're in still a predominantly male industry. I'm just curious how that has influenced how you show up and being humble, being collaborative. The servant leadership, I mean, there's research and study after study the shows, that's what works. But it feels like it's new concepts, and it's not. But I feel in a lot of ways female leaders lean into that so much more easier than our male counterparts. And I'm just curious how that informs or has impacted how you show up in your leadership.
Lori:
And I know it's a dig against the males, but a lot of times there's the arrogance and there's can't admit that... Yeah, I'm not the smartest person in the room. I openly admit that. I said every day there's technical issues that come up and they say, "Okay, I'm getting all the smart people in the room," like you said, very collaborative. "You guys talk, let's talk. Let's talk it out. What will work, what won't work?" And then together we come up with a solution. I think that's harder for males to do than females to admit, openly admit, "I'm not the smartest one in the room and it's okay." It's okay. That's not my job to be the SME on everything. That's what SME is for. My job is to get everyone-
Carol:
To find the smartest people in the room.
Lori:
Yes. To find them and help me find the solution.
But I'm going to share a story with you. So right next door to my office, there's the YMCA and they have a dress for success program. So all of my clothes, all of my clothes, I know they look expensive, but I spend like $10 for a dress, $5 for a blouse, and this coat was $10. And it goes to a worthy program where it's helping women that have been, whether they were abused or alcohol or drug addiction, rehabilitation, and try to get them to giving them skills to do interviews, to dress for success. That's what it's called, dress for success and get them on a better path. While I was there one day and just buying my clothes.
And then the lady that was at the register, she says... And I had just come on as the interim CEO, and it was very public what my salary was, it was going to be 275,000. Well, my counterparts in the industry, they're more like in the high threes to fours. And my predecessors here on this job got paid more than me. They're in the 300s and they had a bigger package than me. And I thought I was being prudent, right? [inaudible 00:30:01] So I'm trying to save the taxpayers money. We don't have the funds to get all the way where we want to go, so I'm cutting all costs wherever I can.
So I thought, and mind you, at my previous job at ENV, the top city officials, we were getting paid about 165. To go from 1 65 to 275 overnight, that's huge for me. That's a lot of money. She made me feel bad. She said, "You took a much lower salary than your male, Haole..." Haole is Caucasian predecessors. "You just undermined everything that we here at the Y are trying to combat. Women equity. And especially I'm native Hawaiian, so minority female, you just took us back how many steps?"
And I felt this small. I was like, I wasn't thinking I had the world on my shoulders of female native minorities. I'm just thinking of Lori Kahikina saving money, and this is a lot of money. But I said, "I understand where you're coming from. That was not my intent." I can tell you when that came out in the newspaper, what my salary was predominantly the public perception was, "Wow, here's somebody who is trying to save the taxpayers' money." It wasn't what she felt. And so I have to be conscious of that. A lot of times I don't think of those things. I don't think female native Hawaiian. I think I'm an engineer. I need to get this project done. And so it's always good to have that reminder of whether I like it or not, I am representing different groups of people.
Carol:
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well, hopefully over the years that's been course corrected because as a lawyer who does salary negotiations-
Lori:
I'm going to hire you. And the other thing too, what I tried to explain to her was they're taking a chance on me.
Carol:
Yeah, that's true.
Lori:
I'm not a transit expert. So they're taking a chance to... All the CEOs before me were transit experts and here comes this local girl with no national experience, no transit experience. I thought, well, I got to prove myself.
Carol:
But yeah, you make a good point about representation and like I said, coming into a very male dominated, the first female, the first native Hawaiian, there is so much more than there's always that perception and who's watching, right? And who's looking and what are they thinking about what's possible for them based on what you're doing? So wow, I can see that that can be a little bit of, not a burden, but definitely something to pay attention to, something
Lori:
To pay attention to. And I would always tell my team back at ENV again, all blue collar workers. I have three sons at home who've tried and tried to get away with stuff, so there's nothing I haven't seen. And I'll do the same thing with my son.
I have a thousand blue collar men that I'm leading right now. There's nothing I haven't seen that you can get away with. So you need to be tough in certain situations, but
Carol:
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm curious about managing your board, because I know there's been some contentious moments in the past that made you even reconsider if you want to stay in your role. And so I know managing as a CEO, managing a board and political oversight and operational delivery is no small feat. So what have you found most effective in trying to build that alliance and that credibility with your board and external stakeholders while still protecting your team in that process?
Lori:
That's a really good... I like that term you just said, protecting my team. And so that's a hard board meetings. I would not let... I mean, they wanted different team members to come and present to them. And I blatantly, I said it right there at the board meeting. I said, I will not have them come down and you berate them. And it's always a gotcha. Why do you need to be like that? We're very open, honest, and transparent, and if we make a mistake, we'll own up to it and we'll apologize and we'll fix it. But don't try to gotcha us. That's not healthy for any organization.
And our board meetings are so public, the media watches them and they nitpick and they pick up on that, and we become front page news unnecessarily. And we're trying to change our reputation here. We should at least forward-facing, be collaborative and showing unity. But when you're showing that you're already battling... That's what I walked into even prior. The CEO was being terminated. The board CEO and mayor just could not get along. And so we don't need that public perception. Behind the scenes, fine, but publicly don't do that. And was to the point I was ready to leave. I was just fed up. My contract was ending, and I told my team, "I'm done. I don't need this BS, to be treated like this." Every stakeholder that we had was being collaborative and trying to work with us except my own board. My own board was my stumbling block. So that was, I had had it. I was done.
And it was my team. My team came to my defense and they said, "Don't let them win. You're needed. You need to stay here. You're the ones with all of the relationships. You're the ones that had turned this project around. Please don't go." And so when my contract came up on the board agenda, I did not ask anyone to come and testify, because the previous CEO did that. He had a petition going around to try and save his job. And I refused to do that. One of my own employees came and testified. Stakeholders, major stakeholders in the islands, wrote letters on my behalf. The contractor, one of our biggest contractors, as soon as I came in, I terminated their contract. He was pissed off at hell with me. He went to the mayor and swearing about me, and he was the first one actually to write three of his employees, his top managers wrote letters on my behalf, saying that, "Yeah, we were mad at Lori for terminating our contract, but it was the right thing to do. We were wasting taxpayers money."
They were also the contractor on the west side before I came. And they said, because of the way Hart managed, they lost a lot of money. And so to have these different stakeholders come to my defense, it was very humbling. It was, yeah, team members, they were behind me. And then ultimately, FTA stepped in. And they don't do that. They don't like being in the media, they don't like their name being anywhere. But when they were watching what was happening here, they made it clear that if I don't stay... They didn't say my name. They just said, if the HART leadership changes, we will not sign the amended full funding grant agreement, and we will not continue to give you funding.
Carol:
Wow.
Lori:
That was huge. Since then, I know I'm going a little bit off-topic, the board makeup has changed. There's been replacements by city council and the mayor, the temperature is so much different. They're very supportive. They still, I expect them and they are holding us accountable.
They find mistakes. Like, God, we just had a major typo in one of our monthly reports. It was a board member that caught it, but again, it wasn't a gotcha. It was, "Hey, it looks like a change order, a rather large order that you're giving to a contractor. A board needs to approve that." And we were all caught off guard. But it's refreshing.
And I have regular meetings with the board members that want to, whether it's a monthly lunch or there's one board member, we talk at least two, three times a week, because he wants to know what is going on with the project. And it's all with the sentiment of how can we help move things along. So it's definitely changed over the last year.
Carol:
That's incredible. I mean, that is a ringing... You have to feel proud about the fact that someone who's mad at you or the contract is signing off on it and that. The FTA is like, "Listen, basically, if she goes, we go." In a lot of ways, so I think, wow, that's such a ringing endorsement.
And I know that's balancing as a leader, that political climate, because a lot of times board members hold that kind of political cache and wield it in ways that can either be for evil or good. And so to stand up to that, I love that you have the fortitude and the self-belief that, listen, I don't need to take this. I can go. But I'm sure that's a struggle. And I'm sure other leaders who are probably maybe in some challenging situations with their boards, this is probably helpful to hear that you protected your team, you stuck with it, you had the support of the people around you. And I don't know if the lesson is hold out because the board will change.
Lori:
A lot of praying. I kid you not. It was so public, one of our board meetings, one of the board members was yelling at me and slamming the table and the Titah in me, I tell you, it was so hard for me. I just wanted to reach across the table and strangle.
But it was by the grace of God, I kid you not, it was, "Don't do it. Don't do it. Just take it. Just take it." And that's what ended up playing out in the media. And that wow, Lori handled that grace under fire. But that's not my personality. It's very Titah, and fight back.
But oh, I should share, when I first came in, that's what I still had that attitude. And so when I was in front of council, I was presenting our budget for the first time. I was only here less than a year, probably a few months. And I felt a council member was attacking me, and I slammed my papers down on the podium and I was going after her, to the point that the committee chair had gavel and he is hammering, "Decorum. Decorum."
She ended up crying and it ended up being in the newspaper. And I was not proud of that fact. I had to apologize to her. I had to apologize to the chair, council chair, administration, mayor and MD. And going forward, every vote that came apart, where HART came up, obviously she's going to vote against us.
And so that was also another pivotal moment in my career that you're just going to have to council member or whoever, we're going to have to agree to disagree and not fight, not fight back. Because then we all looked bad. And so when that was happening with me and my board and I was being attacked, it was like I just took it and whatever questions they were asking, I just answered it the best I could professionally, very calm, even, level tone. And that actually worked to my benefit. So if I could give any advice, it's like, don't bite, just be grace under fire and-
Carol:
For sure, for sure. Yeah. I think about that scripture that says, let them rant on so all may know that they're mad.
Lori:
[inaudible 00:42:56].
Carol:
Yeah, you're the calm in the storm. And there's another saying that I heard a long time ago that I often say, is that if you ever want to see or know what something straight looks like, just lay something crooked next to it.
Lori:
Oh, there you go.
Carol:
And so sometimes perspective is skewed until you actually can see something together. And then the one that's over here doing that is the one that's like, something that's wrong.
Lori:
Yeah. I like that. I've never heard that. That's great.
Carol:
Yeah. Well, feel free to use it. We've talked also before that you stepped in leadership at a time when the public and stakeholder trust needed rebuilding. What were some of your first moves to reestablish that credibility? And I know you've talked around a few things that you did coming in, but what have you been doing also to keep that trust growing?
Lori:
Yeah, that's a good question. So again, when I first came in, I thought I knew public being in the media, nothing compared to HART. And so we were getting bombarded constantly. I mean, I felt like it was every day media just throwing questions at us. And then we're trying to run a $10 billion project over here. I don't have time to be stopping dropping everything and answering your questions. But if you don't, then the media will say, "HART refused to answer." And it's not we were refusing, you give us two hours to turn around the questions and get accurate information out there.
So we hired a public information firm to help us, "Okay, can you be the middle man when these questions come in, help get the answers from our team and draft them up and get them out quickly?" And they have all the relationships with all the media, the local media here.
Well, we were still in our first year, they recommended to me, you know what? You need to do an op-ed opinion article in the newspaper and explain HART's side of the story. I said, "That's not my style. It's going to come across as bragging and we're doing this, this." I said, "No, my style is I want to talk one-on-one with different groups. Whoever will listen to me, and that's what I'm going to do." So whether it was the neighborhood boards, rotary clubs, professional associations, anyone who would welcome me to come and talk. And all I did was give an update on the project and here's the status of the construction, what's coming up, here's our finances, here's what it looks like. And just again, being open, honest. And I didn't care if it was 10 people or 500 people in the room. I personally did it, not my staff. It was me so that these people could question me right there on the spot at the end. And so they knew it was live. [inaudible 00:45:56] here's the information.
And if I could convince one person in that room that we are a different HART, we're trying to do things better, I'm sure anywhere, but definitely here on the island, how things work. They're going to go home, tell their family, their friends, and it's going to spread like wildfire. And I think that had a lot to do with, usually at least one person will come up to me, but usually more, "wow, that's the most honest information that we've ever heard from HART. And you have changed my mind." Whether, again, whether I'm supportive of this project or not, at least you're trying to do it in the most expeditious and prudent way.
So I think that, again, I'm very public. Anyone wants me to speak. I'm there. I'm willing to do it and share our story, share the information, and yeah, you can question me about anything and I'll answer it.
Carol:
I love that. That's clearly a theme coming through in our conversation is your authenticity, your openness, your honesty, that it's a through thread in how you are leading, how you're working with your team, how you're communicating with the public, and just really how you show up in your work, which has a tremendous impact, which is very obvious. The infrastructure project will live far beyond any one leader's tenure. So when the skyline is fully operational decades from now, what do you hope people will remember about your leadership and the foundation that you built?
Lori:
Yeah, that's a good question. I would like to think that they do remember that we were responsible for turning this project around. We were trying our best. We were handed something that was broken. I mean, don't get me wrong, the infrastructure that my predecessors built, they did do a phenomenal job. There were issues that we inherited that we had to fix, which we did, and we were able to open. But I think that's it, how we were able to turn this project around, our reputation, and hopefully people... There's still a lot of negativity right now. The ridership is low because it's only going from point A to B. It's not finished yet. It's not going where people need to go.
But in the end, mayor always reminds me of this. You're not just building the system, you're reshaping... You mentioned it earlier, you're reshaping the island of Oahu, because TOD is coming up all around those stations. You're reshaping how the culture of the people, of the public to get out of their cars and so that they can just ride the train back and forth to work, play, shopping, whatever they want to do, you're going to save on their costs in their own home. My own son, he has just bought a house out on the west side, which is very close to the rail station because it's too expensive to live on the east side of the island, and especially in downtown and on the Windward side. So he had to buy out on the west side, but the traffic is horrendous.
So to know that that complex that my son bought in is part of, they're one of the first TOD programs that developed adjacent to the station. And so, yeah, I like what mayor says that you're not just building rail, you're changing the landscape and you're changing the community and having a positive impact.
Carol:
Wow, that's powerful. That's powerful. So my last question, you clearly are someone who has a strong amount of resiliency and are very grounded, whether it's your faith is grounding you or your experience, the culmination of a lot of things. So as we close out, for those others who are stepping into these high-stake leadership roles, what advice would you give them about leading with resiliency and clarity and courage and authenticity?
Lori:
I mean, those are the words right there. You need to be very open, honest, and transparent. I say that over and over again in this podcast, but daily, daily. My staff knows this, that whoever you're communicating to open, honest, transparent. And yeah, you need to have resiliency, meaning you will be attacked, especially in such a public role like this, you will be attacked constantly, and you need to be like a duck and just let it roll off your back because you know, you can look yourself in the mirror and know I am doing the best job that I can on behalf of the taxpayers. Not doing it for me personally, I'm doing it and I'm doing it, I'm making the best decisions that I can with the information I have. And if it was the wrong decision, more data comes in two months later, we have to pivot. Okay.
But just be open and honest about that, that I stand by my decision two months ago because that's what I had with my information. Now there's new information. We're going to go in a different direction. But own your mistakes and own your own decisions. Don't blame. Never blame the staff, especially publicly. Publicly as the leader, you're going to have to take all of the hits. You're going to have to take all of the blame it says, and apologize to the public, whatever it is.
Internally, all right, what happened? And make sure this doesn't happen again. But also externally too. We do get the credit. All the accolades, everything is coming to me, but always, you are not doing this alone. There is no way all of the positivity that is going on, I'm not doing that. It's my team.
So yeah, you get the credit. You also take the bad stuff. So you have to be... Just as long as you can look yourself in the mirror that you're doing what you feel is the right thing to do, then you should be strong enough to take all of what we call the [inaudible 00:52:24], like rubbish, all other rubbish that is going to be thrown at you. Just let it roll off of you, and just going back again to my faith, it is like, yeah, got to, I keep praying to God every day. Oh my God, please give me the strength and the right thing to do, help guide me what is the right thing to do. Every day something comes up, it's like, oh my God, I got something technical that we need to solve, and please give me and my team the knowledge and the wisdom on how to fix things, how to fix this issue that just came up. So that's my advice.
Carol:
Great advice. Lori Kahikina.
Lori:
Yes, nailed it.
Carol:
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. That's such great advice. I just want to thank you for pulling back the curtain on how you're leading one of the most ambitious transit projects in the country with resilience, authenticity, and definitely a people-forward focus, which is incredible. Thank you so much for being here with me.
Lori:
Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.
Carol:
Absolutely. For leaders listening, remember this. When you invest in leader awareness, team development and trust in building safety and showing up authentically, as Lori so beautifully demonstrated, you don't just deliver projects, but you create organizations where people want to contribute and succeed together.
At Carol Parker Walsh Consulting Group, we love to partner with organizations to elevate leaders and build high-performing people-first teams safely, sustainably, and with measurable results.
I want to thank you for spending part of your day with us, and thank you again, Lori, for sharing your insights, and until next time, keep leading people forward and I'll see you soon.
Lori:
Thank you very much. All right, take care.
