Carol:
Most leaders don't struggle because they lack skill. They struggle because complexity outgrows their current operating system. Today's conversation is a real-world look at what changes when a leader increases self-awareness, and builds a team ecosystem that can execute without constant escalation. I want to welcome you to The People-Forward Leadership Podcast, where we talk to leaders who are building cultures that perform, retain talent, and stay human under pressure.
My guest today is Donishea Martinez, an executive commercial leader at Genentech with more than two decades in biopharma across strategy, marketing, manage care, customer operations, and customer engagement. She currently leads the Inland Texas Ecosystem, and is responsible for strategy, and team leadership to achieve portfolio goals, and support patient care, and access.
What I love about Donishea is that she's not only a high performer, she's a builder. She builds talent, she builds trust, and she builds systems that make leadership scalable. And I am honored that we have to share that we've worked together in the past, and I know her well, and she's a remarkable woman. So, with that, Donishea, welcome to the show.
Donishea Martinez:
Thank you, Carol. That was so kind of you. Just warmed my heart. Thank you.
Carol:
You are welcome. I am so excited about getting into the conversation today, because I think your experience is something that so many leaders can relate to. When you're leading a large complex system that makes a massive impact on the overarching goals, and results of the organization. But you're doing that within such a large ecosystem, and how are you navigating that, and showing up as a leader, and showing up with your team, and building a great team when you're also working in a larger culture, and ways of doing things that may not always align, in terms of what you're trying to do, but how you are the conduit for your people, and your own leadership, and your team.
So, I want to get started with this idea of you leading in a world where complexity is constant, where there's matrix teams, external pressures, high expectations, and I want to go back to when we connected, and when we first we began working together. What was the leadership pressure point that you felt both personally, or with your team, and what made you decide that now was the time for you to elevate your leadership, change your leadership, or just readjust things, readjust your lens around leadership?
Donishea Martinez:
Absolutely. When you, and I met, we just moved to this new structure at Genentech called customer engagement. So, our field teams were moving into the structure where our reimbursement teams, our sales teams, our patient educators, as well as our medical teams were going to be working closer together. And in that there was a lot of ambiguity. Quite frankly, we blew up a whole lot of stuff to create something that we thought was going to be better. And quite frankly, that is better. I am a person who loves operating ambiguity. I don't like rule books, I don't like guidelines. I just want to give me the problem, let me get some good people in a room, and we'll go solve it. That tends to make me very comfortable. What I learned though is although that works for me, although that was a part of my success that wasn't necessarily going to be a style, or an approach that worked for this larger ecosystem that I'm a part of.
What I learned is the importance of when are consciousness of systems, processes, it's easy for a leader to have a clear vision. You know how you want to get there, but when you've got to bring 50 to 100 plus people along the journey, your vision itself is not enough. So, what are the systems? What are the processes? What are the things that need to be in place? What do you need to write down in order for people not only to understand where you're going, how we're going to get there, and how we measure, and determine our success? Yes, those are things that I knew intuitively. And I would say, though, I didn't do the best job of creating the framework for other people to go along that journey with me. I just thought, hey, they were excited. I was excited. We're going to get in a room together, get some flip charts, figure it all out.
Well, it turns out everyone does not feel safe doing that. Everyone does not feel secure doing that. Everyone does not do their best work in that way. And so you have to recognize with all these personalities, and all these styles, and the fact that you're doing something new, you too must approach leadership differently to bring everyone else along the journey.
Carol:
Yeah.
Donishea Martinez:
I called you, and I was like, "Hey, Carol, I think I'm good at this, but I am not where I want to be. Can you help me out?"
Carol:
Well, I love what you shared about, and I think this is a common thing that leaders do, particularly when they're coming into someone with your exuberance, and your excitement, and your drive, is that, okay, let's go. Let's get people together, and go. And I love what you said about that everyone's not always on the same page, and that it's important for a leader to understand their style, but understand that their style doesn't work for everyone. And so how do you find that line, and make that adjustment so that you can bring your people along? Yeah, I think that was powerful. And this goes to the whole thing around leader awareness, which is the first step, the first pillar in our framework about that self-reflecting piece.
But leader awareness isn't just about self-reflection, noticing the moment your strengths turn into constraints. And I think that was one of the moments that you learned that this is a strength of mine to drive change, but it's constraining because I'm not looking at the other leaders. So, what did you also learn about your default leadership style under pressure, especially the part where that maybe helped you to succeed, or the part that was starting to limit your team? So, I know you started talking about that, but I would love you to share a little bit more about that.
Donishea Martinez:
So, one of the things that you, and I talked about is I'm an Enneagram three, so that means I want to make everything great. Doesn't mean I want it to be perfect. I want it to be great. And there was a person on my team, phenomenal, highly talented, just young in role. So, because I hired this person who didn't necessarily meet every dotted line of a qualification, they were a diamond in the rough. I found myself almost managing this person too much, giving feedback more than I probably should. Weighing in on things, not really allowing this person to make the mistakes that a normal person would make in growing up in their role, because I believe that, one, this person was reflection of my leadership. Worst mistake every leader could ever make because you can only be accountable for yourself. And I knew this person was going to soar, and probably lead the organization one day, but quite frankly, I wasn't coaching them in a way that demonstrated my comfort, and my role, and my trust in them.
So, I was double checking, and triple checking everything, and I did not allow them to soar. So, when they moved on to the next role, I found myself going, "Here's what they're lacking." Instead of, "Wait, here's why this person was so amazing that I brought them on board." And so I recognized in that style because we were in a new structure, we had a new team, we were doing things differently. I was trying to make sure that everyone was maximizing the opportunities that we had before us, and show up well, and why was that important? Because so many people wanted us to go back to the way that things were. They wanted us to go back to what made them comfortable. So, I want us to kind of move forward in the direction that we were going in, and I was terrified that if anyone thought that anything was wrong, or bad, then they would take us back in reverse.
So, I start managing this person who was high potential, phenomenal at what they did. I started managing that person out of fear. Does that make sense? Instead of being the leader, and the maximizer that I naturally am, the person's moved on. They're currently soaring, and doing great things, but I learned you cannot lead out of fear. You, and others have taught me, I can only be Donishea. I have tried to be somebody else, turns out, doesn't work, and they don't like that other person very much. So, the more comfortable I am, and go back to leading in a way that makes me comfortable, yes, adjusting for the larger team. Yes, for the ecosystem, yes, putting a framework still in place, but still being myself, that stops my strengths from becoming a constraints. So, I'm going to maximize, but that doesn't mean other people can't grow, and soar in the process.
Carol:
Wow, that was so good. There were so many gems in what you said. And speaking of which, I remember in your strengths finder, you are a maximizer. So, helping you to do that's so amazing. But I love what you said about not managing out of fear, and not making people a reflection of your leadership, and how I took that micromanaging people to turn them into mini-me's, but really seeing their potential, and maximizing it to the highest level, and seeing what's amazing about them, and elevating, and expanding that as opposed to making them reflections of you. That was so powerful. I love that so much.
Donishea Martinez:
Thank you.
Carol:
I think that is something is that most leaders feel like everything their people do is going to come back on them in some way to show somehow they're deficient, or they're not doing something right, or they don't know anything. And while, yes, your team is a reflection of you as a leader, it's not because they're little microcosms of you it's because you're not expanding them, and helping them to be successful, but you're micromanaging to the point where there's no critical thinking, and there's no ability for them to soar. So, I mean, wow, that was really good. That was really good. Yeah. Was that hard for you? Was that process of letting go of managing them in fear, and stepping into them being their own person, was that really challenging for you?
Donishea Martinez:
It wasn't. Historically my success has been because I've been able to identify talent, even diamonds in the rough, and give them the framework, and the tools that they need to be successful. So, it wasn't. I think what was hard is we were in a new world where there was so much criticism, are we doing this right? Are we not doing this right? And so there was so much criticism in the environment, and I was managing a larger group for the first time. There was a confidence that I needed to have as a leader that I'd had my entire career that I did not have in that moment. And so I found myself looking for that confidence in other people, my manager, my team, my work. And what happens was when you were always looking for that external validation, I'm not known to be a micromanager by nature.
I would even say I wasn't micromanaging that person. However, I wasn't allowing them to make mistakes. I wasn't allowing them to soar. Because sometimes when you've got performance issues, you do have to micromanage. You do have to be there a little bit more. You are on top of things because you're trying to manage the business. You're trying to make the business successful, and the individual successful. So, you've got to stay closer to that. That's different than what I was doing with this person, which was, "Hey, I think you responded quickly to that email. Maybe we should have waited a couple minutes. Hey, let's talk about that decision. Maybe we should run it through five, or six other people to make sure it's the right decision." So, I was adding obstacles in that situation that probably did not need to be there if I would've trusted the individual.
There are others, which is what I learned also through this process. So, once I learned that Carol, I then switched the opposite side of the pendulum where I was like, go figure it out. And they would come to me with this thing, and I was like, "This ain't right. This isn't going to cut it." And that's not ideal either. And so what happens is you send people off with without enough guidance, you tell them they're owning it, they're empowered, and they come back to you for a consult, and then you tell them what's wrong, and you begin to fix it with them. That's not ideal either. So, it's just as a leader, you have to live in the tension. That's the best way I can describe it, right? There is this tension of empowering people, and there is this intention of providing clear, and direct guidance.
We're taught that if we just kind of say something at a very high level, and people like us, that everyone's just going to naturally figure it out. And that is false. You need a leader, and you need a coach. You need a visionary, you need a architect, you need a catalyst. And so as a leader, we must be all of these things, but we've got to figure out who needs what at what time. When you're leading a matrix organization, that is hard to do. There's lots of training out there, but I can tell you it's very limited training on leading, and matrix organizations. So, now you're not just leading individuals, but you're leading individuals that are engaging with other individuals who have a work product with multiple individuals. Does that make sense?
Carol:
Yes. Oh, yeah.
Donishea Martinez:
You have multiple managers, and all these people have different things. It's a hotbed. Does that make sense for not leading in the way that you naturally do. So, if you're not comfortable making mistakes, if you're not comfortable being exposed, if you're not comfortable living in your strengths, and leveraging your strengths, you just feel like you're constantly your head's on a swivel, and not a very good one. If you're not secure in who you are, and what you're attempting to do, and where you're going, and why you're doing it, it's really, really easy to lose yourself, and to harm people, and not elevate them in the process. I don't think organizations understand how often they're putting leaders, and new situations in that environment.
Carol:
Yeah. Wow, that was so good. I mean, particularly because you said that you hire, which I think is so smart that, I mean, here's my interpretation of what you said, that you hire for capacity as much as you do capability, meaning you find that diamond in the rough, the words that you use. I love that, because there's certain inherent things that you want people to bring to the table, but the other things could be learned. And so that ability to do that, which is even more reason why you want to make sure you're pulling that out, and developing them, and all the things that you said, all the things that you said are so fabulous. So, I'm curious because people love the idea of growth is what's the one specific practice, the thing you do when you're busy, when you're traveling, you're under fire.
What's the specific practice, or habit that you've built that increased your self-awareness to change how you show up every day? Because you've learned these things you like in the litany of things that you've learned about that tension of leadership, and what it takes particularly in a major's organization. So, what's the habit, or practice that you develop to make sure that you keep that top of mind so that when things are coming around you, or the sky is falling, or the objective shift, or change, or things of that nature that you make sure you come right back to that, so you don't lose that as you're leading yourself, and your own awareness of leadership, and your people?
Donishea Martinez:
The first thing is just time spent with myself in the morning. So, getting up in the morning for me, quiet time, my faith's important to me. So, doing a devotional that time matters to me. The other thing that I found that helps it, and this is something again I learned in my sessions with you, is before I go into certain meetings, I have to write down what's my role in this room? So, what is my role in this room? Is my role to listen in this room? Is my role to lead? Is it to guide? Is it my role to get feedback? So, the more clear I am on what I'm supposed to do in this meeting, the better that I show up. I naturally ask questions. I naturally don't believe you, and I would talk all the time. You're like, "Donishea, I know you're processing this, and you are not with me yet", right?
I am naturally a dissenter. People would say it's a problem. Others would say it's a gift. I live there. So, because I'm a natural dissenter sometimes in certain meetings, that was the way that I was showing up, but that's not what the meeting needed. That's not what the meeting required of me in that moment in time. There were other times that I needed to be in that role.
So, just pausing, and ask myself, "What do I need in this moment? What does the group need in this moment? What does the organization need in this moment?" And being that thing. And one of the things I want to share is that we know that being a leader is difficult, but there's this being a leader, and being likable. And so sometimes I almost want to talk about, and you did an article about this almost six to eight months ago about this likability factor, and being a leader, and what does it mean if everyone likes you, but you're not really leading?
But you also want to be a leader, and not be a jerk. And so I was living in this world of, "Well, I can't say this, or I can't do this because people won't like me." Well, the problem with that is that then I wasn't doing my job. And there are all these other ramifications that come from not holding folks accountable. So, going back to this thing that I had to learn is one, take some time for me, and get my act together in the moment before I pour it into anyone else, husband, kids, and even in the workplace. Number two, what do I need to add in this room? What's my value? What do I need to share in this room? And three, just coming out of the room going, there's a tension that I need to live in, but I can't live in that tension being anyone else except for Donishea. And she's a pretty good girl. She's likable, she's worth it. And so, trusting in that, and walking confidently in it.
Carol:
Yeah. That's so good. I love that because, and the thing that I noted is that you talked about journaling, doing something sometimes the actual concrete action of getting things out of your head. I talk about this a lot out of your head, and on a piece of paper, helps you to really focus, and structure because things are clicking off in our minds a thousand miles per hour, and we may miss something, but actually, you used the word taking a pause, and really reflecting. And that activity of writing, and journaling is such a great way to take that pause, to get that clarity so that you know what's needed of you in that moment, which is so good.
Yeah, love that. So, a lot of leaders think that they have a performance problem when I think they really have a system design problem around ownership, handoff, decision rights, execution. And you talked a lot about that around delegating, and empowering your people. When you looked at your team ecosystem, where were things getting stuck, and how did you, either in your own diagnosis, or through some of the things that we've done together, were able to really understand what was happening, and how to course correct that? Particularly as you said in a matrix organization, when you're just getting it from all over the place, how were you able to get unstuck, and redesign a way for your team to function at a higher level?
Donishea Martinez:
So, I would say it was getting help, and support. So, going back to you, going back to mentors who left the organization, as I mentioned, there's two things that I brought to the table that I recognize are mistakes. One is just because I could see the problem, and come up with a fix, I assume that other people could do the same. Hey, if you just do this, it will be done. That is not the case. That doesn't make them person bad. It doesn't make them good. It just makes them not Donishea. And I have to understand that to your point, I don't want to go around creating mini me's. The second piece is I had to learn how to be more clear upfront in expectations. So, you, and I talked about calendar at one point in time, and then I spoke to another mentor of mine about calendar. So, I was in this new role. I was busy. It felt like I was back to back all day long, you know this best.
We had meetings, but I wasn't making meetings, or I was in a meeting with you, and then my phone would ring, and it seems like things that you would know, but I didn't necessarily know how to be effective with my calendar in the new role, because there's no training class on that. You're in the role, and everyone expects that you'll figure it out. It took me having a conversation with you, and this sounds so small, and a former mentor of mine who's a senior leader who goes, "You have to actually give your administrative partner permission to manage you." I would never think that you have to give them permission.
I just thought that's what they do. Well, their job is to help support you in the way that you want to be supported. If that means taking greater owner of your calendar, does that make sense? Scheduling meetings, or doing some additional follow up, it's incumbent upon me to say that. And then once the expectation is set to go back, and say, "Hey, this is something you own. Let's talk about how we can make it better going forward", right? And there were so many instances along the way when I would go, "Hey, we're having a meeting. Go run out, and plan that meeting." I assumed they had frameworks, slides, the whole kit, and caboodle. Oh, we're going to meet with the customer, and there's a contract. Okay, go roll with it. My assumption was you knew who to call, and what to do, right? Because we're in this organization, you've been here a long time, you're highly capable. But the basic training, and support of a leader, it was still needed.
So, I didn't learn things that were monumental, or earth-shattering, but it was actually having you, and other mentors giving me permission, and little tips along the way that helped me become a more effective leader. No one should ever have to tell you, "Hey, you're amazing. You're actually really good at what you do. Go do it." But in this season, in this role where there was so much changing, I needed that. And I share that because if there are any senior leaders that are listening to this podcast, don't assume the high performer, the new capable leader, the new director knows that. They need that coaching. They need that encouragement from you to make sure that they can continue doing the things that you hired them for, and know that those are the things that you still want, and need for them to do within the organization. Just don't take for granted that they know those things.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is so good. Empowerment basically is not a vibe, it's a structure.
Donishea Martinez:
I love that.
Carol:
Is what I'm hearing, right?
Donishea Martinez:
I love it. Yes. Yes.
Carol:
It's not like a buzzword. It actually is structure. It's clear ownership, it's clear decision-making, right? And it sounds like that you put in some decision rules, some accountability, some norms, some processes, clear expectations, and all of those things that to your point, I think there's an assumption that, "Okay, well, you know right?" I know what I do. You know what you do. Let's make it happen. And it sounds for some people really to your point, it sounds like pedantic, it sounds simple, it sounds like, and of course, but these basic fundamentals of understanding how your time shifts, looking at the cadence, and the rhythm, and the accountability, and decision-making things, all of those things have to be re-examined.
I often say, well, I always say that it's a system. And whenever there's a shift in the system, we have to stop, and go right back to the beginning, and ask the basic questions to make sure the system is functioning effectively, and a team as a system, an organization as a system, a department, as a system. And whenever there's a shift, we have to reexamine what's going on. And it sounds like one of the things that you did, because this just reminded me of the importance of getting that understanding, and the clarity that you got from your own experience, but also the importance of hearing back from your people to make sure you're moving in the right direction.
Because even great systems break when conditions change, like I talked about with systems shift. So, what keeps teams strong is the ability to learn fast without burning your people out. So, how did you, and your team learn in real time to create those feedback loops, those after action reviews, or the rhythms that you needed to adjust? How were you getting the information back to make sure that as you course corrected, it made sense for the team, and they were moving in the right direction?
Donishea Martinez:
So, a couple of things. One, I'm so grateful for the individual contributors that are part of my team. They cared enough to tell us, "Hey, this is not working." And that is not feedback that any leader wants to hear, because let me be crystal clear, we were delivering on the business, and continue to deliver on the business. And I don't mean by a little bit, I mean by a lot. So, from a business metric standpoint, we were crushing it, right? From a create an environment, a world-class experience, a world-class culture. We had some gaps there. And we had people who cared enough about us, and their colleagues, and our organization, and the patients that we serve to say, "Hey, there's some things that we need to get fixed." So, I just want to say, first of all, I'm grateful for the people on the team who called it out.
Secondly, I'm grateful that I have the type of leaders who say, "Okay, wait, let's pause. Let's listen, and figure out what we can do, and what we can course correct, and change." So, it's a journey. It has not happened overnight, but those two things have to be symbiotic for it to work well. So, what we found ourselves doing is like, oh, it's a matrix leadership system. We always say, "Let's be clear." But then we found out, I walked away from a meeting thinking I was clear, but someone else thought they were clear, and their version of clear was not my version of clear. And so when you have 10 leaders who have different levels of clear, it creates a little bit of chaos. So, then we went through this whole process of writing documents, and notes for every single thing. And yes, that has its place, but you're not going to be able to document every single thing.
And the attorney in you knows there's a difference between the letter of the law documents, and the spirit of the law. What are the documents trying to tell you? And so last year we wrote a lot of documents, letter of the law. This year we're talking about the spirit of the law. So, January kicked off, and my leadership team, and I have a leadership charter. We're talking about matrix leadership. We talk about culture at our team, we talk about what does it mean to performance, to manage performance. So, we had taken all those documents that we wrote, and now we're going through the process again, going, "Okay, we said these are our norms. Are we living our norms?" Let's do some poll checks. You mentioned an after action review. We recently had a meeting with our team, got great feedback from the group on a meeting.
It was awesome, nailed it. But what they don't know is the process was a little wonky on the backside. So, we did an after action review on what that process was like so that we don't make sure that we make those... We do something differently going forward. Why was it wonky? Because the expectations, although they were clear for me, they might not have been clear for someone else, although I thought I wrote an email saying roles, and responsibilities, someone reading that didn't understand what specifically those actions look like for them. And so in a world that is constantly going fast, and what I mean by that is today is the fastest day that will ever exist in the world that we live in today, but it will also be the slowest day in the world that we live in today. So, who's got time to write documents, and memos, and go back, and revisit norms?
Nobody's got time for that. But when you do not do that, the impact on the people, and ultimately the impact on the business, that 30 minutes, that two hours is well worth it to make sure that you continue operating in a manner that is healthy. So, I would to go back to say we went back to revisit it, and we built a leadership charter, and we've built a framework, and we are now going back, and revisiting those things at the top 20 minutes of every single meeting to make sure that we're getting better to delivering the way that we want to be. As leaders, no matter how much AI that we have, no matter how many tools we have, we've got to center on that because that's what people need to really be successful in the business. What I learned, and this is all kind of close this out, and say, we become trusted partners, we become great leaders in the moments that test us.
And the way that we react is not something that we learned in a textbook. It's likely those things that we do every single day. It's the way that we care about people. It's the imprint that we have on all the people that we engage with that determine how we show up, and the impact that we have on those people.
Carol:
Okay, that's the mic drop moment. Okay. I love that so much. So, I'm curious about, you said two things that I want to come back, and I do want to ask an AI question, because I know that's a big thing coming up, so I want to pin that for a moment. But you said something about your leadership charter, because I was going to ask a question around how do you keep your standards high with your leadership, and make sure that things are done intentionally, and not in a way that's disempowering people, and that people are kind of motivated, and the culture is still inspirational, moving people forward. And you mentioned your leadership charter, so I'm curious, is that what you use to set those standards? And what are some of the things that maybe you have in your charter if okay to share? And how does it help become that kind of guiding star for how the team moves together?
Donishea Martinez:
So, I'm happy to share, if I think about our quote-unquote "leadership team mission", it's that we inspire, and enable, and empower our team to deliver more medicines to patients, and take someone faster. So, again, we inspire, we enable, we empower our team to deliver more medicines to patients faster, and that's aligned with our CMG goal. But what I love about it is when you peel back the onion, and what our team says is we're the force that amplifies potential. So, my leadership, they're very clear, and I know we're not the people, we're not the leaders. We're not sitting the role. We are the force. Collectively, we will amplify potential for the organization. And so success is not just achieved, it's multiplied. And so we hope by doing that, we hit our business results, we positively impact patients, but more importantly, we're the team that when the organization is looking for its next leaders, it's next set of ideas, they come to our ecosystem because that's what we're all about. It's not just, and it has to have a little ish, or oomph, on the end of it.
Carol:
Yes.
Donishea Martinez:
Again, we want to make sure the power of our group, our collective, that's how we show up. And it has to be more than words on a praise. If you read your mission statement, and it sounds like a mission statement, probably not the right one, but when I say to you, "Hey, Carol, we're the force that amplifies potential." If you know me, it makes a ton of sense. And so I'm glad that this is something that our leadership team came up with. Yes, we lead with trust. Yes, we lead with clarity, and yes, we lead accountability, but we can't amplify potential without those things.
Carol:
It is so funny that you talked about that because that to me, that's a team brand, and I've worked with other teams, and leadership to build, what are you about? What's your contribution to the organization? Who are you as a team that has that little bit of oomph to it, that, what's the word, the flag in the sand that you have. And I just actually posted today on LinkedIn around that team brand, and what it does to move your team collectively in one direction. And I love that, that is such a powerful statement around who you are, what you do, and the clarity of it that allows you, whenever you're making decisions, or things to go awry, to come back to who are we? Let's get back to who we are, to make sure that we stay in alignment, and we stay together. And I'm sure it's a unifying thing as well to know that this is who we are in this larger ecosystem in terms of where we work.
Donishea Martinez:
And we had to keep going back to look at it. It's one of those things, for me to say it's one of those things for me to know it, and I'll be transparent. We wrote this as a group in February of 2024. When I asked the group, myself included, what was it at the end of the year? We couldn't tell you. Why couldn't we tell you? Because we weren't going back to revisit it. And so when we lost our way, and we were busy, busy, busy, and we were doing all the things, we weren't doing the things that we said that would matter to us. And so as we enter 2026, we're anchoring ourselves here, and we're going back here. Because if it doesn't allow us to do those things as a leadership team, then we have to ask ourselves, should we even be doing them?
Carol:
So good. That's so good. So, I do want to go back to this AI question because we know that so many organizations are having conversations at least around where does AI fit? Where does generative AI, how do we use it? What are the tools? How do we get data? What's data quality, data management to make sure that we're leveraging it correctly? Who's going to use it? What's the governance structure, and the evaluative mechanisms that we use? How do we frame the use of AI within our organizations? I'm just curious if you all are having those kinds of conversations within your team, and how are you making sure that even as you bring in AI, that you're still holding the human component very alive, strong, well, and relevant in the conversation?
Donishea Martinez:
So, I would say I work for an organization that I'm extremely proud of. We're not perfect, but we remain a great place to work. And I was reminded of that when we did our AI rollout. So, I want to let you know, we decided as an organization that everyone was going to go through AI training, and we had a date by which 90% of the organization had to complete it. You learned about AI, but the way that we use AI is not relevant. Every tool is not relevant for every role. So, what happened was the organization said, learn, and experiment with these tools of things. And then in my team, we have Omnichannel, and digital. How do these tools apply to your role? So, if you have a team of people that need to know lots of data Notebook LM is a great tool. If you have managers who have to write field contact reports, or follow up notes after a meeting, Gemini, we don't use Chat for other reasons.
But that's a great tool if you create slides like VO, or video. So, what happened was we learned AI as an organization, but every AI tool is not great for every single role. And so our jobs are now to figure out how do we begin to use, and experiment with the right tools? I love the organization because they said, "We trust you guys to go use an experiment with AI." Now legal was like, don't go crazy. Don't start making up materials. Don't start putting people's names, and personal information. There was a framework, and guidelines to keep the organization safe as there should be.
But no, we've embraced it. And I can honestly tell you there are things that we've accomplished. There are ways that I am more efficient because of AI, but the output is only as good as my prompt. I have to continue to refine, I have to make it me. So, you know if you throw a prompt in there, and it spits out, you know when someone sent you an email they did not crack themselves. You can tell the way they communicate. We've taught our people it's not a copy, and paste, or just tell me this. We've talked about hallucinations, and all the things that come with it. So, I would say I think we're doing a good job. Do we have a ways to go? Absolutely. But everyone else does.
But I would say we are seeing the efficiencies in it, but if anyone else's organization who's listening to this hasn't embraced it yet, it's a lot more inefficient first before it becomes efficient. So, you have to kind of take that as you are rolling this out. But again, I'm very proud of our organization for the way that we did. It was not perfect, but it was really dag gone on good because it wasn't one department. We decided it's priority for the entire organization, and rolled it out as such.
Carol:
Yeah, and what I also loved about what you said is that you invited the people to determine what was useful, what was not useful, to let everybody experience it together. So, there was transparency, there was unification around that. And it wasn't designed to say this is replacing, but this is an augmentation. And so that it allowed people to come to the tool without fear of it, or worry about what it means for them, and their work, but seeing it as a way to leverage, and excel in their work, and really have them ask themselves those questions about what does this mean in my work? What are the areas in which I can use it? Which tools would help me function at a higher, more proficient level? And you're right, with hallucination, and everything else, you got to be smarter around using it. It is not a replacement for sure.
But I love, to your point, the way you rolled it out, it wasn't a mandate. It wasn't a stop doing this, we're going to do this, or we're getting rid of you because this is coming in, but it's like let's understand it as a group, and let's see what works, and what doesn't as a group, which I think is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty interesting, because it's a lot of money that is invested in these tools, and it sounds like you're a Google organization, so you leveraging those Google tools made a big difference. And I always tell people, leverage the systems that your organization is using if it's a Microsoft, or Google system. And then just being able to experiment with it just makes it a lot easier, and a lot better.
Donishea Martinez:
And I'll say with our organization, what I loved about, they did it, our officers did this really well. Our officers went through the training with us. So, when our senior leaders came in the room, we were learning this. And I know the officers went through the training like a month ahead, but we were all sitting in the room learning together. Let's go in the Gemini, and say, write, blah, blah, blah, blah, and make it sound like I am Oprah Winfrey. So, we were laughing together, and going along the journey together, and then those leaders in turn did the work with their teams. So, it was a really great process of we are all learning together as an organization.
And granted, we are semi flat but not truly flat, right? The oldest is still the CEO, and she's amazing, but it didn't feel like we were separate, and apart. And they did a great job of saying, this is an augmentation. This is to make us more efficient. This is not designed to replace. So, I would say, and I actually ended up the leader of the team when we finished, I emailed them like, "Hey, this is probably one of the best rollouts, and a way of embedding a new skill that I've seen in my entire career."
Carol:
Wow. That's great. Well, I look forward to your write up on that whole...
Donishea Martinez:
I'll use my favorite Google tool to do that, right?
Carol:
Exactly. Well, listen, Donishea, what I appreciate about this is how practical you have been in terms of what you're sharing in terms of your leader awareness, and leadership precision, and looking at your ecosystem, and empowering it, not realizing it's just like I said, a vibe, but actually a structure. But before we wrap, I would love for you to share a couple things. One is, what tip, or belief would you say a leader needs to embody if they're working in a larger ecosystem, or a matrix organization as you shared? And what's one practice that you would tell every leader that they should start this week?
Donishea Martinez:
Great questions. I would say, I take this phrase, it comes a little bit from Maya Angelou's, but people may not remember every process. They will not remember every framework, but they'll remember how they experienced you. So, as the leader of the team, you determine that you want the culture that you want to set, speed of the leader, speed of the team. So, what are you doing to make sure that people experience you, and the way they work with you in a way that's really embodying? And the way that I think about it, people don't experience your org chart, right? They don't experience your strategy, they experience how you deliver it, and team alignment is critically important. Carol, you've been on this earth long for a pretty good amount of time, and have you ever walked into a place where two people did not get along, and they don't like each other? It's rarely ever a good experience if you're the customer, or the colleague, right?
And so as a result, that unity amongst teams really impacts the way that we work. So, having that clarity, having good experiences ultimately impacts strategy, and impacts output. The one thing that I would do this week, I would say just start by taking a breath, and taking a pause. And coming from me, that's a big deal because I don't breathe. I did not breathe, and I did not pause often. I was like, "I've got five minutes, let's get it done." That breath today gets you so much more on the backend, and plan out who are you going to be in that room? How do you want to show up? What do your people need from you? Are you even in a place right now in this moment to give them those things, right? So, that you can be successful. So, I would just say to all leaders, yes, there's a ton of work that we need to do.
There is not enough time in the day. I am a mom of two that are still in school. I get it. But just taking that time for yourself, which is different from self-care, I want to be crystal clear about that. It's just taking the pause to think, and breathe so that you can actually enter the space, and be fully engaged in fully who you are. I would all of us to do it today. And the disbelief I want you to believe is I want you to tear apart, and this was not your question. We're often taught as leaders, if you build a great story, if you build a great framework, if you build a great argument, people will follow you. That is not true. On repeat. That is not true. If that was the case, then people would always be on board. We would not have any political disagreements because every logical argument would win.
At the end of all this, there are people, your job is to create the vision. Your job is to create the framework. Your job is to tell a compelling story about why we cannot stay here, and put the tools, and systems in place to bring people along the journey. But everybody's not going to come. Some are going to run, some are going to walk, some are going to crawl. Please don't drag anybody because that means they don't want to be there. And that's a tougher decision. But just make sure that you recognize that, and that it is not as easy as create a PowerPoint slide deck, or tell a compelling story. The work that we're called to do right now is harder than any work that we've ever done in our history, and it's going to take a different type of leader, and a different type of skill to make it happen.
Carol:
Wow. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Donishea, I mean, this whole episode could be written up as a manual for anyone who is thinking about leadership, or wanting to level up their leadership. And I just want to thank you so much, not only for taking the time to share this, but for the way that you lead, and for being willing to make your leadership journey so visible, and so tangible for people to actually pick up some tools, and tips, and practices that they can actually engage in their leadership. So, thank you for sharing that.
Donishea Martinez:
And thank you for what you put into me, Carol. I wouldn't be here right now without you, so thank you.
Carol:
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. And listen, if you are listening, and you want to build a people forward leadership operating system with more awareness, more trust, more ownership, please make sure you follow the show, and share this episode with a leader who's ready to scale without burning out their teams. Thank you so much for joining me, and until next time, keep leading people forward. I'll see you soon.
