Carol:
Welcome to the Midlife Career Rebel, the podcast created for high achieving professional women to gain the clarity, confidence, and courage they need to go after and get the life and career they want. I'm your host, Dr. Carol Parker Walsh. Lawyer, social scientist, brand strategist, executive coach, entrepreneur, and Midlife Career Rebel. Each week, you'll learn strategies to manage your mind, navigate the challenges of midlife, and take control of your career so you can thrive doing the work you love. So if you're ready to tear up that rule book and create your own, you're in the right place. And I can't wait to show you how.
Carol:
Hey, rebels, how are you today? I am really excited because I get to bring on another amazing rebel woman who I get to interview today. I had the privilege and honor to be on her podcast as a guest. And I was so happy to bring Tammy on here so you can hear all of her words of wisdom, and so much exciting things that's happening with her that I know you will learn from.
Carol:
So I want to just do a quick intro for Tammy. Tammy is the author of Work From The Inside Out. She is a career and executive coach, a speaker who inspires people to take ownership of their careers and create more meaning and satisfaction. And over two decades, Tammy has shared her expertise with audiences and clients, focusing on career transitions, networking strategies, and leadership development. And additionally, she designs and facilitates meetings, workshops, and webinars, and absolutely loves working with clients and organizations across various sectors and industries. And since 2018, Tammy herself has hosted a weekly podcast Work From The Inside Out, showcasing the inspiring stories and practical lessons of professional women who made the transition to more satisfying careers. Well, I think it's more than just women. I think it's professionals generally that you work with. So Tammy, I just want to welcome you here. Thank you for being here.
Tammy:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Carol:
Well, I would love to dive in just a little bit in terms of how did you land where you are? How did you get into doing career coaching, and development, and the workshops, and all of the wonderful things that you do? What land did you hear?
Tammy:
So for a very long time, I've always been interested in people, and I've always been interested in what makes for a good life. And I've done a lot of different things throughout my career to be of service to people and trying to help them make their lives better. And I started my career in the mental health field and community mental health, and worked my way through a number of different roles. Worked in every different sector imaginable, and found myself feeling like I wasn't quite hitting the it or whatever it was that I needed to do. Not that there's one it, because I think many of us have more than one. And I reached a point where I was to doing fundraising, and that definitely wasn't it.
Tammy:
But I was working on behalf of a lot of programs I believed in, but it wasn't the right thing. And I knew that I had to kind of go a little bit back to some of my roots, either in mental health or some kind of more direct person-to-person kind of helping role.
Tammy:
And then I found out about this thing called coaching. Now this was over 20 years ago. Coaching was in its infancy at the time. And people were calling it life coaching. There were a handful of programs. And I got to meet a coach and she started to tell me about it. And the minute she described it to me, it landed like a thump right in my middle. And I knew that was it. So within the year, I went to a program and I got certified, and literally there's been no looking back. And I've developed it over time.
Tammy:
The career part of it I think stems from the fact that I spent so many years thinking about always being interested in what am I doing for work, thinking about career. I actually as one of my work study jobs in college I worked in the career center and I enjoyed that quite a bit. So I think that was part of it too, I had that experience for a few years in college.
Tammy:
So I knew I didn't want to go more towards life coaching. I wanted to help people find their way into their professional lives. So that was sort of the angle I took. And then over the years, it's morphed into executive coaching. I have an MBA. So I had that background to contribute.
Tammy:
And I started to realize after a few years that facilitation skills group, facilitation skills, actually, there's a lot of parallels between and coaching skills. And I had an opportunity to do some facilitation work, and I grabbed it. And from there, that led to doing workshops and then more recently webinars. So everything just kind of built and grew incrementally over the years. And it gave me a chance to work with people in a variety of industries, and sectors, and to be able to build on my learning, and teach what I was learning, and help people find their way through their work lives in a way that they could find more satisfaction, more meaning. So through training, through coaching, through facilitation. Just always trying to find a way to help people be happier at work, whatever that looks like.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that. You said something really I think is so powerful and I think is something that I know at least with a lot of clients or women that I talk to, even my own experience is that you know how you find something and you're like, "But that's not it." Right? Sometimes it's so much easier to know what we don't like than it is what we do like. But you said you kept hearing or just having this inkling that this isn't it, this isn't it. What really helped you to keep looking and not just say, "Well, that's just in my head. Let me just stick with mental health is what I know, is what I'm doing. Let me just stay in this direction."
Tammy:
Well when I started in the mental health field, that was. It was my it. And then after a few years, it was no longer my it because I got burnt out. It was a very intense kind of work. And it was a community mental health. We were working with adults who had been deinstitutionalized after some of whom had been living in state institutions for 40 years. So it was a very tough population of people. Great experience. I value it highly. But I could only do it for a few years and then I needed to do something else. So there were a lot of its along the way. By the time I reached coaching, I was close to 40. I had a much clearer idea of what it looked like. Now that's not to say that when I found coaching that I knew that that was what I would be doing for the next 20 years. I didn't. But it is, because I'm still here. But even that has developed over the years lot of different things.
Tammy:
Initially, I didn't just get my coaching certification and then just start coaching full time. I worked part-time, continued to work part-time doing some fundraising while I built my coaching practice. Then I stopped fundraising because I really wanted to stop fundraising. And I got a job in a university as an administrator, a program administrator. And I did that three days a week while I built my coaching practice. And then after three years there, then I went full time on my own.
Tammy:
So a lot of these things don't happen overnight. They evolve over time. So there was another job that felt like my it thing. And I went with great gusto after that. I worked in public policy and in politics for several years. And boy, I could feel the fire in my belly for that when I first went for that. And after a few years of that, I realized no, this isn't it anymore. So sometimes, what is your it for a while, you get to know it. You get what you can from it, and then it's time to move on to something else.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that. I think we've been raised with such a misconception that there's supposed to be one it. And I think that's the thing that trips up so many people is that just because the thing was an it before, we think that it's supposed to be the it forever. And when it doesn't still fit anymore, we start to question ourselves, or question our sanity, or question if that's what we should do. Particularly if you come from a background, a culture, or an experience where I know I was raised with the idea that you get a job, you keep a job, you retire, you die.
Tammy:
Exactly. Exactly.
Carol:
So the idea of having choice and options or not wanting to do something anymore and trying to do something different was a huge kind of awakening for me. And it was a challenging thing to even accept within myself. How were you able to go ahead and make those pivots without having a lot of maybe some of the mental jumps that a lot of people go to, or unless you did not to-
Tammy:
No actually, I would say that I was very fortunate around that. Even though both of my parents, my mother worked in the same job for 20 years. My dad worked in the same job for over 30 years. And yet, they were incredibly encouraging and supportive of all the pivots I made. I'm sure they had a few questions here or there. I mean, they grew up during The Depression. I'm sure that they had some of that in their background. But I think they heard me out. And it wasn't like I just dropped a job without anything to replace it. I always worked.
Tammy:
But it's a great question because I think for the most part, most people were told growing up, and this is what we saw around us. You pick something, and you grow through that, and it's kind of a linear path. And that's what you do. So if you deviate from that, then you start to think there's something wrong with you. I can't say that I didn't struggle with some of that to some degree. But as I think most of us especially in our twenties, I think we're still struggling with identity issues and all of that like who am I really?
Tammy:
But at the same time, I do recall, I spent a lot of time thinking about this because I've been writing about these kinds of things in my book too, and talking to people about it. I think that I probably was very fortunate in that my parents were unusually supportive of a lot of the things that I did in my career, all the pivots. I mean, even when I was close to 40 and decided to go for my coaching certification, I think I asked my parents for a little financial help at that point to pay for it. I already had a child. I didn't have $10,000 to throw around and I didn't want to borrow money. Well, at least not from anyone else. And my parents were always, not that they were rolling in it either. But I would always go to them for these kinds of things and say, "This is something really important to me. And it's going to advance me in a direction professionally I want to go in." And would you be willing to help me out with this? And they were just always very supportive of those kinds of things. So I was very fortunate, I have to say.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. That is very fortunate. I think it's great to have that level of support. I'm sure in your work with some of your clients, not everybody is so lucky.
Tammy:
No.
Carol:
So when you're dealing with people who are just struggling with people right up underneath them, their family members, their spouse, or people who are just pushing against them from changing, or doing something different, or just planning seeds of doubt over and over in their minds, how do you help them or talk to them about handling the naysayers, or the haters, or the reactions to people who want you to stay put when you want to do something different?
Tammy:
Yeah. So I deal with that all the time actually. And it can be tricky, especially in a spousal situation where there they are. They're helping to pay for their spouse to come to me and we're working on this. And yet then we start to make these decisions and then they're like, "Wait a minute. I don't like what this Tammy's doing with you." So it can create a little tension.
Tammy:
One thing I always offer to do though, is I will offer, I will say, "Listen, if your spouse has questions about this and why we're making some of these decisions or choices, let them know they are always welcome to get a hold of me and ask some questions." And I would say maybe once, I got a call from a spouse.
Carol:
Interesting.
Tammy:
Yeah. So I always make that an option as well to say, "Listen, if you're going to push back and after you've agreed to support your spouse in getting some help with this, and now you're saying no, you can't do this. It's like put up or"-
Carol:
Shut up.
Tammy:
But your question's a good one. So I think that this is something that the person, the client has already been struggling with. So usually what we will do, depending on what the arguments are or what the objections are, we will work together on coming up with some good language and some good discussion points that they can go back to their loved ones with to address their loved one's concerns. The way that I like to work with it is to say, "Look, this person is either afraid or they care about you. They don't want something to happen to you. Or they've got their own interests at heart too. They're scared. So it's not that they don't want something good for you. They're not saying it because they're trying to stop you from making some changes that will make you happier. They are afraid. Maybe they don't deal well with change. They're risk averse. So you need to understand that part of your process affects them. They are part of your equation. So there needs to be that kind of conversation."
Tammy:
So you might have to go back to them and say, "Look, I understand that you think that this might be a mistake, or that you think that I might be going into this too quickly." So let them know that you are hearing them first. When people feel heard, they are far more likely to listen. So start with that and then try to have more of a back and forth conversation. Otherwise, it's going to turn into just a budding heads kind of thing. So that's what we start with. And then we work through it.
Carol:
Yeah. I always say people can't see beyond their own limitations. So it's hard for them, when you start pushing beyond boundaries that they can't even see possible for themselves, it does become challenging and a little bit scary. And I think it's one of the things that keeps people stuck where they are. The fear of the unknown, the fear of getting it right. The fear of what's on the other side of this decision, of this change and all of what that's going to mean.
Carol:
When it comes to fear of stepping into that place, what are some of the things that you have heard or seen people are really struggling with around that, and how they can really move beyond that fear of the unknown?
Tammy:
Well first of all, they're afraid of the unknown. And then they start making up stories about what they think is going to happen. Right?
Carol:
It's like the boogieman waiting behind.
Tammy:
Right. Exactly. And the story that they make up is usually an all or nothing kind of scenario. And so it's an either or, and that's all there is. There's nothing in between. There's no compromise. It's either going to be this or that. And neither is a good idea, you know? So they find themselves-
Carol:
This or that, they both suck.
Tammy:
Right. So they paint a scenario that automatically gets them stuck. So my default is to go to a little lightness and humor, depending on the person of course. But I will say, "So, you're telling me you have a crystal ball, you know ahead what's going to happen. And it's either going to be this or that. And there's no other possibilities. Is that what you're telling me?" And then I usually will laugh a little bit.
Tammy:
Now, depending on who I'm talking to, right? I don't always do that, but I do say something usually about a crystal ball. Because I say, "Look, none of us has a crystal ball. Of course you don't know what's going to happen. That's the truth. However, you have to trust yourself first. Do you trust yourself? You have to trust yourself enough to know that you are not going to let yourself get into a situation where any harm is going to come to you or anything horribly embarrassing. The pictures that you're painting right now, would you really let that happen to you, really?"
Carol:
And usually that's when their shoulders start to go down and they realize that they have more control. So then we have a conversation about let's unpack this a little bit. What do you have control over, and what don't you have control over? And let's get back to the heart of the matter here. Why is it that we are even here having this conversation? What is the goal? What's the ultimate goal of what we're trying to achieve? And really try to get it back to the brass tacks, get their feet firmly planted back on the ground so that they're not flying off the handle and imagining the worst case scenarios with everything. Now, some people actually use the worst case scenario, because it actually helps them to step into action. For other people, it actually paralyzes them.
Tammy:
So it's not always the worst thing in the world to say, "What's the worst thing that could happen? Okay. Well, that probably won't happen, so okay. I can do this." But other people really believe the worst case scenario will happen and it stops them. Yeah. So I think though, that that's, the job of a coach is to kind of read into what's going on for this person. Are they feeling like all of this is out of reach? And then trying to find those things that are within reach. And say, "Okay, let's talk about the things that are within your control and what are your choices within those scenarios, and what are the things you have no control over? So we're going to park those off to the side. Because we can't do anything about them anyway.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. You said something that I thought was so key and critical, which is about trusting themselves and trusting our decisions and trusting our belief in something. And I think that's one of the biggest struggles that I know. And like I said, I work primarily with women and I know you work with both. And I would love to hear do you find a difference in this? But just trusting in your belief that you can get the result that you want. I think it's what keeps so many people, even from going after coaching or investing in themselves. And I do think a lot of the trust is because they've not been impeccable with their word to themselves. They've not fall through on things. They've not made promises to themselves that they didn't follow through on and didn't commit to, which I think they bring over into the fear of not getting what they would want when they come to you for coaching.
Carol:
And one, I'm curious if it's different between men and women in that regard. And second, how do you help people even in the process of coming in to get the coaching to begin with trust themselves and begin to trust and believe that they could get the results that they so desperately want and need in their career?
Tammy:
I have been actually surprised at where men are willing to look in the mirror at themselves and what the things are that they're willing to work on. And I've seen lots of women who really don't see themselves and really have to work pretty hard at trying to develop that. Whereas we think women are more natural at it, but I've definitely worked with women who are not there.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting to hear. I find that myself, that organizations are really loving coaching, and bringing coaching in, and seeing it as something that's a positive as a great developmental tool that can help you, because you don't know what you don't know. I mean, you can't see the blind spots or the things that you've been doing so often that you don't know that with a little bit of insight and self-awareness, could really change the game for you and how you progress. So a lot of people I think still ... I love it when an organization is behind it. I love it when people have the experience with it. But I do know there's sudden people who still are struggling with the idea of getting a coach. And I'm always like, "Serena Williams has a coach. [inaudible 00:24:23] coach." So why not benefit from, what an amazing privilege and resource to have, to be able to have someone that could like mirror for you and bounce things off you so that you can just level up already, whatever excellence that you bring to the table.
Tammy:
I totally agree. But we're a little biased here.
Carol:
We are a little biased.
Tammy:
We believe in that kind of growth, you know? And I think there are some people who aren't interested in that kind of growth, or they think they're not. And they just have another perspective about what it means to be at work all day long, and what they expect to get out of it. And they don't want this fluffy coaching stuff, you know? And if they tried it, maybe they'd like it. But it's like, how do you get a light bulb to change? Right?
Carol:
Right. Right. Yeah. I think those are the people who think work should be work.
Tammy:
That's right, right. That work work is just work, and it's a totally solid line drawn between work and the rest of your life. But that's not how we look at it.
Carol:
Yeah. Well, I think the pandemic has changed a lot of that too though.
Tammy:
Oh definitely.
Carol:
I think people are starting to, they call the great realization of really understanding that it's not just work. That when the two became so closely aligned, when people started working at home and remotely, and start realizing that the continuity is really more similar than different, they wanted to make sure that that continuum was more of a happier experience than not.
Tammy:
Yeah, absolutely.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tammy:
Yeah, that's definitely created a huge shift. It's funny in a very odd way that this pandemic that doesn't seem to want to go away has created some shifts that are I think very interesting and might be for the better. And yet no one in their right mind would really wish this on anyone.
Carol:
Right.
Tammy:
But yet there are some things that are coming out of this that are absolutely fascinating.
Carol:
Yeah. I agree with you. And honestly, I think some things for the better. I think there's been some really, really fantastic self-discoveries that I think has been happening with people that have been allowing them to take proactive steps to improve their lives in a way that they probably weren't paying to before.
Carol:
I always talk about people often operating on autopilot. And I feel like what the pandemic did was to take autopilot off and say, "No, you need to actually take back control and get back in the driver's seat of what's going on."
Tammy:
Yeah. It really forced everybody to slow down, whether they liked it or not. And I think some people probably surrendered to that enough to really benefit from that. And other people just have continued to kind of kick, and scream, and whine, and say, "I don't like this. I don't like this." And they're missing out actually.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What would you say are some of the biggest challenges? I mean, considering everything that's going on and has been for a while. And in your experience, some of the biggest challenges that women have around really stepping into and going after the career and lives they want. Particularly when they're at midlife.
Tammy:
Well, there's several things. Unfortunately, I would say I think that we are not as far along as we would like to think we are in terms of the culture and how women are treated. And I even hate to say it like that, because it's not about treating women in any particular way. But I think still, women are paid less. And fewer women are in senior level positions. And all the things that we've been talking about forever.
Tammy:
I think that women as they age, there's still a lot of I think prejudice against women's appearances. Because a man whose hair starts to get silvery or white, well that's distinguished. But a woman, it's a whole different story. You know? And there's ageism. I mean, there's ageism that affects men and women. But I would say that there's a lot of things that are still, I think women have to work harder to get themselves where they want to go. And it's a tricky thing because if they want to assert themselves in any way, it's a very delicate balance. Because an assertive woman can be seen as being too aggressive.
Carol:
Right.
Tammy:
Right? So their behavior is interpreted in ways that they don't have any control over.
Carol:
Yeah.
Tammy:
So I'm painting a very depressing picture here, but these are the challenges. But I do think that clearly things are better than they were. Yeah?
Carol:
Right. Yeah.
Tammy:
They are much better. However, those challenges still exist at a magnitude that is really far higher than it should be at this point. And there's been so much work done to try to really reduce that.
Carol:
Like you said, it sounds like a dire pitcher. But there is I think some really great opportunity as well. I think because there's been so much change and awakening that's happened of late, that I think now presents such a really good opportunity to go after, to try to push the status quo. I've seen organizations really shift, and change, and want to be different and better. I mean, we definitely have some old guard no ways of doing things. And you are absolutely right. We still have miles to go around gender equity. But I think that this time feels like a really great time particular for women to start to define what they want to get clear about they want. And to take action in moving in those directions that make the best sense for them. And I think people are more open to that than were. Even though, we have way to go. But I think there's more opening, the doors been open a little bit more for that.
Tammy:
I think you just named the key is that that is something that I think has changed quite dramatically is that the door is much wider open to all of that. So that is the opportunity. There's a lot of doors that are now open that were never open before.
Carol:
Yeah.
Tammy:
So I see that as an opportunity. I also think though that women and really everybody, but women have to find their way through to navigate the sea of people and connections, and all the processes and systems that are out there to find their way into the right place where they want to be.
Tammy:
So the opportunities are there. And I think it's all possible. So even though I sounded so negative a moment ago, let me be very, very clear. I think there's tons of opportunity and possibility. And I say that because I know it's true. And I know that there are strategies and ways for women to make the right kinds of relationships and strides to get where they want to go. But they have to be strategic about it. And they need to have the right kinds of supports and relationships to get there. And they're going to have to roll with disappointments and ups and downs, and all of that. And that's all part of it. It's all part of it.
Carol:
But I think you will trip yourself up if you expect the path to just be clear and easy without any problems. Right? And you will also be disappointed if you expect the path to be aid with nothing but disappointment. So you have to understand what's out there, but still have the chutzpah if you will, and the commitment to yourself that's to really go for what you want, with a clear lens of what's in the way. So I think it's important to understand what you're dealing with so you can make informed choices of about the direction that you want to take.
Tammy:
Absolutely. I think it's more about when you, when you get caught up in expectations, get caught up in expectations of yourself. Not in expectations of other people, other institutions, and other systems. That's where people get themselves tripped up. "Well, they said they were going to." "Yeah, they did. So what are you going to do about it?"
Tammy:
Sp it really comes back to you have to trust yourself first. You have to rely on yourself first. And I don't mean that in a, "Well I guess I'm going to have to do it all myself kind of martyrdom." I don't mean it like that. Yeah. But there is a piece of this where you really do have to kind of rely on your own core first. Your own core, your own values. And hold tight to those. And around those, then you bring, you make those relationships, those connections. And always, always, always keep building bridges and be good to as many people as you can, because that's the best way to move forward.
Carol:
Yeah. Love that. Tammy, I want to hear about your book. I know you just did a big book launch recently. And I would just love to hear more about the book, and who it's for, and what's a gift it in addition to where they can get it. And I definitely get the show notes. People will have a link to accessing the book definitely for sure. But I would love to hear about it.
Tammy:
All right. Well, thank you. So the book is break Work from the Inside Out: Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career That Fulfills You. And what I did was off my podcast, I talked to a lot of people who have gone through a lot of different career transitions. And some of their stories, most of their stories, yours included are fascinating to me. And the way people make those decisions, the way they navigate their way make those decisions on their own behalf and navigate their way through trials, tribulations, triumphs, everything. And I chose certain stories from my podcast guests and from other parts of my life based on some of the key obstacles or barriers that I see that people seem to butt up against when they're trying to make a change or when they are afraid of making changes.
Tammy:
So for example, the one area that seems to run through the whole book is the notion of fear. So when you're afraid of change, even if you want it, fear is going to run through all of that in one form or another. I address things like age. "I'm too old to do that now. It's too late for me." Kind of putting it aside kind of thing and saying, "I'll just bide my time for the next five or 10 years till I retire."
Carol:
Yeah.
Tammy:
I hate it when people say that, but I hear it all the time. But that's their choice. But I also think the fact that it occurred to them that they're biding their time, that they even had a thought about maybe doing something else. And sort of dismissing it and saying, "It's too late for me. And they're in their fifties. The forties. Forties, right? I've heard this.
Tammy:
It is not too late for anyone. I profiled somebody in the book who was 58 years old, and he changed careers, and was still lightly happy and empowered by it. The other things, we've actually touched on a lot of these topics here tonight already. Another chapter's called Careers Are Not Formed in a Straight Line. So that that's a chapter, that's all about what are the expectations that we have about careers and how do those expectations end up getting in the way of us actually maybe going ahead and making some of those changes.? Because we think we're swaying away from those expectations about having some kind of a linear trajectory.
Tammy:
Another chapter is about networking. Networking is something that a lot of people resist. So I try to give two examples of stories of people who've used networking, both each in some similar ways and in some different ways, but also just emphasizing the point that networking is something that a lot of people are afraid of, but it's also probably your best friend when it comes to moving forward.
Tammy:
I also look at fear both as a foe and a friend. Fear can paralyze you. It can also be your friend. It can be your friend in that if there's something you really want badly enough, maybe you're a little afraid of it. Maybe that's because you feel a little bit of excitement about it, because fear can feel a lot like excitement.
Tammy:
So when you notice that little bit of excitement, that little churning in your stomach, or your head starts to feel a little full some kind, of a visceral experience, look at that, feel that and realize maybe that's a sign. It's telling you, "I need to move through that feeling and for it, just go for it. And that's what I mean by inside out. It's that, inner feeling that intuitive inner voice telling you, "This is something you really want or you want to give it a shot. You want to give it a try."
Tammy:
So the book really looks at a number of different areas. Another big one is I have too many responsibilities to make a change now. I couldn't take a pay cut. I got to put kids through college, all this.
Tammy:
Now don't get me wrong. Absolutely. You don't just drop a job when you've got all these responsibilities. Okay? I'm not suggesting that people throw all caution to the wind. But what I do through these stories is illustrate to people what becomes possible under those same circumstances. When you go about making career transitions under those circumstances. That there are ways to do that is possible. It is not impossible.
Tammy:
And then I also offer reflective questions and guiding activities at the end of each chapter that really help people to sort of step into those places. And at the end of the book, I have a pretty robust resources set so that if people are really starting to want to consider doing something, but need more information or more guidance, there's some place they can go to get that information and guidance.
Tammy:
So I try to give people enough to really sink their teeth into. One thing I also offer is if they want to click on a link that I offer in the back of the book, they can also get a companion workbook that actually draws out the questions and activities and some actually extra activities that are related to the book in a companion workbook that they can also get online.e
Carol:
That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. Man, That's so much great insight. All of the top things to stop people. And I love that you're giving people examples that none of those excuses matter. That's all they are excuses and that you can actually get past that to the other side.
Tammy:
You can, it takes time though. I will say that. It takes time. It takes patience, but these are very concrete examples of people who actually made it happen.
Carol:
Yeah. I love it. I love it. So one last question, which I have been asking everybody is what does it mean to be a career rebel to you?
Tammy:
What does it mean to be a career rebel? I think it means to really ... when you're thinking about your career, I think it means coloring outside the lines. I think that whatever lines you think were drawn. Whether it's thinking about things like, "Well this is my career. And this is my personal life," or a lot of the things we've been taught, which we were already talking about, you know?
Tammy:
So, "Well it's Saturday." I shouldn't be thinking about work right now. Well guess what? I feel like thinking about work on Saturday. Because you know what? I love my work. That makes me a rebel? Okay, fine. I think of myself that way, that work and are all mixed up together. Yes, of course we need a break from our work sometimes. We also need a break from some of the people in our lives. We need a break from ourselves. We go to sleep every night. We need breaks from everything.
Tammy:
So my wish for the world is that everybody be a career rep and stop making so many rules about everything. If you loved what you did for work, then it wouldn't matter. I hear people say things like, "Well if you love animals, maybe you should work in a vet's office or an animal shelter." "Oh no. Then I wouldn't love it so much because it would be my work." Well, isn't that interesting? Why can't you love your work? Who says you can't love your work?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. Right. I love it. Right. I think to people who think work should be work say that. But absolutely. I love it. I love it.
Tammy:
Some people say, "It would be too emotional for me." Why can't you be emotional at work? Why can't you be emotionally attached at work? Maybe if it was your work, you'd find maybe a more of a balance with your emotions and your connection to animals or these other things. I'm not saying you have to do it.
Carol:
Right.
Tammy:
I think we've got ourselves in aa box.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah..
Tammy:
And it's limiting us. It's limiting our brilliance and our creativity and the gifts that we could give to the world and to ourselves. Right?
Carol:
Absolutely. I agree with that 100%. Yes, yes, yes. Tammy, thank you so much for being here.
Tammy:
Oh, well my pleasure. This has been so much fun. I could do this with you all the time.
Carol:
I know. I absolutely love it. Just everything that you share, just so much wisdom. And I will definitely drop the information in this show notes on how to get your hands on this amazing piece of work so that if you are struggling in making a transition, going through a midlife pivot or whatever the case is, that you have the tools and resources you need to be successful. So thank you again.
Tammy:
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Carol:
Yes. Well, that's it for today. Rebels, join me next week on the podcast. And don't forget to subscribe, comment, and leave a review. We want to make sure that this gets out to as many people as possible, and your help is greatly appreciated. Until next time have an amazingly rebellious week. See you soon.
Carol:
Hey, if you're loving what you're learning on the podcast, then you've got to come check out the Career Rebel Academy. It's where you'll get the individual help and support. You need applying the concepts of strategies you're learning here and so much more. You'll be joined by a community of other rebels just like you. And I'll be there as your guide every step of the way. If you're genuinely looking to change the course of your life and career, I promise you, this is the place you'll want to be. Just go to www.carolparkerwalsh.com/career-rebel-academy. I can't wait to see you there.
