Carol:
Hey there, rebels. Welcome back to another episode of The Midlife Career Rebel Podcast. I am so excited today because we have just an incredible woman on the podcast today. I mean, you talk about someone who just epitomizes in my mind the idea of a midlife career rebel, someone who's always stepping up, reinventing herself, stepping into other iterations of her highest possible self. Just never... Always seeing opportunities, never saying no, and just consistently up leveling the game every, every year of her life. And so, she's just a great example and I'm happy to have her on the podcast today.
Carol:
We have Casey Hasten, who is the director of recruiting and coaching with VIP. She's a podcast host of the We Are VIP podcast, which I had the pleasure and honor of being a guest on, and a soon-to-be published author, and we're going to get into that a little bit later. And, after being in the accounting world for over 20 years, she made the leap to recruiting with those with similar backgrounds, and it's her goal to help others find their career passion using all the skills and networking outlets she's gathered. In addition, she's also... Her mission is to help raise the consciousness of the world by helping those that she touches learn to be at choice. To accomplish this mission, she focuses on the importance of mindset first and foremost and teaches her clients how to live at choice. I love that term, at choice, and I want to ask her more about that. And, how to co-create their own reality through managing perceptions.
Carol:
And, this has led her to her most recent passion and project, which we're going to get into later as well, this amazing journal, this like thick, incredible piece of resource that you can utilize to really help you called the Awaken Your Potential Journal.
Carol:
So, with that, I would love to welcome Casey to the podcast. Thanks for being here.
Casey:
Thank you so much for having me. You just had to turn the tables on me, didn't you?
Carol:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, after our conversation that we had together, I knew that I wanted to make sure that I got your perspective to be able to share with the listeners because you have so much to offer and have done so much in your life that is just so ideal. I mean, to me, like I said, it's the epitome of what it means to be a midlife career rebel.
Carol:
So, I would love to just hear a little bit in your own words about your journey and your own pivots and transitions that you've made.
Casey:
You know, and thank you for that. Thank you for giving me the space to share this because it's really where my passion was born from. But, like you said in the intro, I started out in a career that I just kind of fell into. I'm a non-traditional person. You know, I got married, had babies, then went to school after already starting a career and then I was like, "Well, I'm already doing accounting. I might as well go to school for it now." And so, just kind of found myself going along a path without a rudder. You know?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Just doing it because that's what everybody said that's what you need to do, that's what you're supposed to do. Right? And, I was never... I wasn't unhappy. Okay? I don't want you to think I was unhappy because I tend to be pretty happy wherever I go. But, I wasn't fulfilled and I just... Because, my passion is really helping other people and by... And, yes, you help people when you're doing accounting but you're also stuck in a room by yourself all day long and it just really was not fun. You know? I wanted to be out talking to people.
Casey:
And so, when I... I was with my last company in my accounting role for 13 years and it... The company ended up not making it, which... Not real sure what that says about me being the CFO, but [inaudible 00:03:54] it really was an industry that wasn't going to be very successful. But, anyway, so the company closed and I was looking for a new role and for the first time in my life, because I had always had people reach out to me for jobs, right? Nobody was reaching out and I'm like, this isn't good. You know?
Casey:
So, I went... I was contacted by several recruiters. I think I found all the bad ones in the DFW area first. But, I finally stumbled across a good one that took more of that coach-centric attitude when dealing with her candidates, not that metric driven attitude, and really got to know me. It wasn't a 15 minute meeting. In fact, I was there for like an hour and a half. Most recruiters would meet for like 15 minutes and they're like, "Yep. You're decent. You don't stink. I'll send you to my clients." You know? And, if you think that's why recruiters want to meet you, that's really why we want to meet you, to make sure you're presentable.
Carol:
Ooh. Inside track there.
Casey:
Yeah. Please do not put on a ton of cologne before you come into the room with us.
Carol:
Ooh.
Casey:
Especially if you were smoking right before you came in and you thought the cologne was going to cover it up.
Carol:
Ooh.
Casey:
No. Doesn't work.
Carol:
Yeah. Bad combo. Bad combo.
Casey:
Yeah. So, anyway. So... So, we're sitting there talking and we're just having this great conversation. She keeps presenting roles to me and I'm like, "No, that doesn't sound like something I want to do. That doesn't sound like something I want to do." And, she looked at me. She goes, "Casey, you don't like accounting." And, I went, "[inaudible 00:05:12]. What am I going to do?."
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, she's like... And, she had been in accounting prior to switching to recruiting as well and she's like, "Why don't you come recruit with me?." And, I'm like, "Hmm. I don't work on commission. No thank you." And, she's like, "Just come sit with me for a day. Come see what I do. See what it's like." And, I said, "Okay. Fine." I wasn't working and I liked her. She's a neat person. I still like her to this day.
Casey:
So, anyway, I went and sat with her for a day and I'm telling you, by the end of that day, I'm just like, "Give me the phones. You don't even have to pay me. Just let me help these people." And, my passion was really sparked and it was really kind of the nexus of where I'm doing a job and I'm getting paid but I love what I do because I get to help people and that's what I want to do. So, it just made perfect sense to me.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, not to anybody else in my life hardly. You know?
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
Everybody else thought I'd lost my mind. I'm giving up a good career to go recruit? Who does that? You know?
Carol:
Mm-hmm. Right. Particularly as an accountant. You know, so stable. Right?
Casey:
Exactly.
Carol:
It's like how could you possibly walk away from that.
Casey:
And, go to a commissions only? What? Yeah. So, it was... It was quite a challenge. You know, working through... Like I said, my parents thought I'd lost my mind.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
The only person that really supported me during this time, and this brings up another point, kind of a side point, was my significant other. We'd been together for a long time. I hate to call him my boyfriend because we've been together so long.
Carol:
Right. Right.
Casey:
But, he is and he was the one that said, "Hey, try it out. If you don't like it, you can go back to accounting." You know? I'm trying to help you.
Carol:
Mm-hmm. That is so important. You know?
Casey:
Yeah.
Carol:
I mean, you said so many critical things here that I think is so important that I just really want to highlight. I think... You know, first of all, you talked about just kind of following a preset path, like, okay, I do this accounting, I might as well go get the degree in accounting and go keep doing accounting. And, I feel like a lot of people are on what I call like autopilot that way. Right? There are a lot of... At that level, I call them hustlers who are just like, "Well, this is the path. Let me get on the path and climb that ladder and do that thing." Without really thinking about, is this really what I want to do. But, it seems right and society supports it and so following that and realizing that you weren't fulfilled.
Carol:
But, I also love, and I talked about this recently, that you actually sat and watched someone in a different career. Like, she approached you with something different but you sat down with her, kind of watched it, got a feel for it, to kind of test it out to see is this really something I would love to do and realize that that was it and then made the bold move to actually go do it despite everyone's objection and things of that nature, which I think is so, so powerful and it's the places... All of these places that you were at, like realizing I don't want to do accounting and like and you're like, what? You know? What does that mean? What do I do with that?
Carol:
Making the leap to do something different and getting the objections are two like sticky points I think a lot of people get stuck at. Right? So, you had the support, which I think is huge for... To be able to make that leap. But, when you were sitting there and she said to you you don't like accounting, like, what went through your mind? Like, what [inaudible 00:08:30]? What were you thinking at the time? Like, what? "I just put all my life and money and education into getting this accounting degree and what do you mean I don't like it?"
Casey:
Yeah. And, I deal with people all the time that are facing this exact same situation in what I do today. But, what... First was horror. Like, oh my God. What am I going to do? Literally, that was what I said. Oh my God. But, it's almost like once you turn that light on, you can't turn it back off. Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
You can't not know that feeling that you just had because when she said, "You don't even like accounting," I went, "Ah. You're right. I don't." But, then I quickly pulled myself up and I'm like, that's not right. You know?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Of course I like accounting. But, it was [inaudible 00:09:13].
Carol:
So, you kind of fight it. You were kind of fighting it.
Casey:
Oh, absolutely. [inaudible 00:09:17]
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah. And... But, still I was intrigued enough and I've always been a little bit crazy and a little bit brave that I was like, "Okay. I can go sit with her. You know, I can do that one thing."
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Take that one baby step and then see where that leads. But, you know... And, as... That moment right there, because I really hadn't allowed myself the freedom to do something like that before.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, that moment right there, I will say, changed my life in so many ways.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because, number one, I stepped into my passion, my genius zone, by helping people.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, number two, I started saying, "Well, if I can look for opportunities here, where else can I look for opportunities?."
Carol:
Wow.
Casey:
And, it's just cascaded. My life today... If you'd have met me 10 years ago... We'll say 11 years ago. You would not want me on your podcast today.
Carol:
Wow. Why do you say that?
Casey:
Because, I'm a completely different person.
Carol:
Wow.
Casey:
Well, I've done the inner work. I've... You know, you talk about those people that are just on autopilot. Those are the kind of people I'm trying to wake up.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Because, there is so much more to life than just going along, doing the humdrum, eight to five, waiting for the weekends. No. Every day should be a weekend.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Every day should be a joy.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And... And, I think whenever you start... Like you said, I want to help people be at choice to help create their own reality and co-create and be a partner with that reality because you can. You know, I could look out right now and say, "My office sucks. Those people back there are just... They're... I think they're talking about me behind my back while I'm in here doing this right now." Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Or, I can choose to say... Not think anything at all about what they're doing while I'm not in there because that's not being present. I need to be present right here. It doesn't matter what they're doing. Doesn't matter what they think. Somebody gave me the best piece of advice one time. What other people think of me is none of my business.
Carol:
Yes. I love that.
Casey:
Have you heard that before?
Carol:
I have. I love that.
Casey:
I love that.
Carol:
I think Byron Katie or somebody like that said that. I mean, I think it is... I think that is so amazing. Yeah. I totally agree with that. You know? And, I love that... How you talked about the fact that you... It's like you gave yourself permission to sit and explore something new.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
And, that opened up like, "Oh my God. If this is something that's possible, what else could there be?."
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
And so, instead of being closed off and so focused, thinking, no, I can't do that, I can only do this or I have to stay in my lane, just by exploring this other opportunity that you really didn't know much about or even had some hesitation around, but just giving yourself permission to explore it just opened your world. I think that is so, so powerful.
Casey:
And, I think once you give yourself permission to explore and you take that baby step and you move forward just a little bit, it starts like a process. You know? And, that process starts to speed up and it just starts to escalate. Like, I couldn't stop this train I'm on right now if I wanted to. There is no way. You know?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, I would have to go like disappear from society for this, the momentum, to stop what I've got going on.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
So.
Carol:
I totally agree with you. I feel like my work... It's so weird because I stepped into this other side like you're talking about around the time I turned 50 and I feel like my life is completely different than what it was before. It was like... You know, I always tell people it was like stepping out of the black and white of Wizard of Oz into the color version and it's like, what?
Casey:
Mm-hmm. Oh, that's great. I'm so going to borrow that. I love that.
Carol:
It's like... It was... It was so eye-opening, which is such amazing. You know, I would love for you to talk a little bit more about... You know, you mentioned it and talked about it, which I think is such an amazing concept, this being at choice.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
You know? And, this choice to be present like at every time, just making the choice, because I did a podcast recently on giving yourself permission to change your mind. Like, you don't have to just stay because you picked something. But, really, this opportunity to be at choice. I love that concept. I would love for you to talk to us a little bit more about what that means and how people can really utilize that as they're thinking about their career and what they're in, whether or not they want to make a leap or change.
Casey:
Well, it truly goes back to mindset. Right? And, I'm going to recommend a book. Not mine, but a book. The book is called Power Versus Force and it was written by Doctor... I think it's Stephen Hawkins. Don't quote me on that.
Carol:
Okay.
Casey:
But, it's Dr. Hawkins and it was based on 20 years of research that he did on energy. So, when you think about it, your energy is everywhere around you. We can measure our energy that we put it off. It's literally been measured. The HeartMath Institute is the one that comes to mind first about that.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, this... This doctor measured the energy for 20 years and he assigned levels to them. Okay? I think he goes up to 2,000, from zero to 2,000.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
All right. Then... So, there's a reason I'm telling you about all this. So, as you start at the bottom of the scale, you start... This is your victim level mentality. Okay? Think of it as a lens. And, here's where the choice comes in. I can choose to be a victim of high housing prices right now. Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, I can be a victim. And then, what happens is there's this part of your brain. I know you're familiar with it. The reticular activation system.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:14:58] starts confirming that you're a victim. Right? So, this is a choice. You have programmed your little RAS, that little monster back there, to choose to see you that way.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
If you tell yourself, "You know what? This is temporary. You know, things are fine. Things aren't happening to me. They're happening for me." Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Then, that changes your lens. Okay? So, you can go from victim to angry, which is the next level, to what I call the Band-Aid level where everything's going to be okay but maybe not really. You know? But, you're just like, everything's fine. Okay? But, then as you rise up in that same level, you get to everything's fine. A little bit more believable, right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, then as you keep going on, you keep increasing until you get to what I call the Buddha level, which most of us aren't there. Right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Very few. Unless you're sitting on a mountain just meditating all day long.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
But, there's different levels in between. And so, when I say you're making a choice, you're making a choice about what lens you're going to put on to see the world, which changes your reality.
Carol:
Hmm. Wow. I love that. I think that is so true. It is all about our choice and we think that we are so... That we're held captive to the things happening around us when we actually have a choice to think about how we want to respond to the things that are happening around us and what's available to us. You know? I always tell people that the universe works with you, not for you. Right? So, that if you are making these conscious choices that the universe will open up to you in ways that you probably never paid attention to.
Casey:
Yes. Yes.
Carol:
But, if you choose not to be open to that, to want to wait, or like you say, maybe stay in those lower levels of victim or even the Band-Aid method, that you miss opportunities because you're not open. You know? And, you're choosing that reality for yourself. That is so powerful.
Casey:
I [inaudible 00:16:47]. Oh, what you just said was powerful and I'm op... Being open [inaudible 00:16:51]. Being open to opportunities, I think is key and crucial because if you think about it, you know, your... If... So, let me just tell you this. Somebody came up to me one day and they go, "Casey, you're the luckiest person I know." I get to meet best-selling authors. I get to meet top 10 motivational speakers. You're the luckiest person I know. I'm like, I am not lucky. I am constantly keeping myself open to the universe and looking for those opportunities. You know? And, one of the things... Like, when I was looking for a graphic designer for my journal, one of my mentors, he's like, "Well, just put it out to the universe, Casey." And, that sounds woo woo but it's really not.
Casey:
What I'm doing when he says put it out to the universe is you start talking to everybody you know. You start throwing those words out there and eventually it's going to stick. And, it did. It took me one month to find the perfect person. One month. And, it came through like a series of connections all because I kept saying, "Who do you know? Who do you know? This is what I need. You know? Can you help me?."
Carol:
Yeah. So, you know, I think... I think we've talked really about this but I just want to kind of talk about this too because I know so many people... Like, I hear this so much from clients or even people who are thinking about working with me, this fear about putting themselves out there.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
Right? And, I know from my perspective it's the fear of what if I fail.
Casey:
Yep.
Carol:
What if I say I'm going to do this and it doesn't work out? What will people say? It's always like, you know, the feedback you're going to get. Or, what if it doesn't work? Right? Or, what... You know, like really what will people think of me if I even say this. Right? And, we've talked... We've kind of touched on this a little bit, but I would love for you to like really speak about this fear of changing, like the thing that just is keeping us stuck. Like, what do you think some of that is? You know? And again, I think we touched on it. And, what would you say is a way to try to like suppress that fear to really allow your desire for what's possible for you to override that?
Casey:
So, I think probably the most important change that I made that really freed me up from the fear was not worrying about what other people thought of me.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, that's hard. That is so hard. And, not trying to control what other people think of me. That's a biggie. People try to do that. You know?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
They act a certain way to cause you to feel a certain way about them. Right?
Carol:
Yes.
Casey:
And, that is... Once you can let go of that... Like, kind of going back to the example of people talking in the office. Right? Not that they're doing that. I don't want you to think they are. But, let's just say. I will say. Okay, there was one time when... And, this was before I had this epiphany, that I had a big fight with somebody on the floor, one of the other sales people, and it was right after I'd started here too. I was really fresh here at VIP and this person immediately got up, went to the managing partner's office and closed the door and I'm like, that's it. Get my box. I'm out of here. This person's been here way longer than me. I probably overstepped my boundaries. Might as well just pack my box. You know? And, that fear. I mean, I was so... Like, my heart was pounding and when he came out, they weren't even talking about me.
Carol:
I know. Isn't that something? I know. We're the... We're the... We're the... We are the stars of everyone's story, right?
Casey:
Exactly. You know, we make up these scripts in our head and I was so worried for that whole hour that he was in there that something bad was about to happen to me and I made up all these conversations that they were having while I wasn't in there.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, it was just a waste of time. You know?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And so, that's why I'm so big about being present. Don't worry about the past. Fix it. You know? If it's something you need to address and fix, fix it, but don't dwell there. You know?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
And, don't worry about the future. You know?
Carol:
Totally. Yeah. You can never... You know, your future is an opportunity for you to create something new and you can't create it based on what you believe of your past. Right?
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
Because, it'll always limit your future because you'll always look back to your past thinking, well, I couldn't do this or didn't do that or that wasn't available. So, you won't... You won't keep yourself open to what's possible to create in the future. So, I love this idea of like... I love what you said. Don't worry or control what... Don't worry about or try to control what other people are saying or doing because you can't. You can't.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
You can waste your time worrying and you can't control anybody else, so in the grand scheme, as you said, it's a complete waste of time. Just brilliant. Love it.
Casey:
And, I think it's so important that people do the inner work.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And, that you know what your core values are. So, for me, and the reason I don't worry about what other people think about me, is because my number one core value is authenticity and as long as I'm showing up the same, it doesn't matter what other people think. If they don't like me, well, I'm sorry for you because I'm fantastic. Right?
Carol:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Casey:
And, there may be something there that you see reflecting back that you don't like about yourself that I do that you don't like. Right?
Carol:
That's usually what it is.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:22:00] could do.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah. You know, when I first started the podcast or started doing the podcast, there were a lot of people from my former place of business, my former recruiting, my first job, that were just like posting some real hateful stuff on LinkedIn and... And, then they would text each other and of course somebody would have to text me and say, "Ooh. Did you know what he said about you?." And, at first it kind of bothered me.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, then... And, that's kind of where all this started transitioning. It was just like, they're just mad because they didn't think of it first. You know?
Carol:
Yes.
Casey:
That's all that is.
Carol:
I totally agree with that. There's a comedian... You know, not... Not that I quote chapter and verse from the person, but I remember one of his shows, he talked about that, listen, everyone should have haters.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
You know? It means you're doing something.
Casey:
Yep.
Carol:
It means you're accomplishing something and most of the time that the people who are quote, unquote, hating on you is because they're not doing anything and they're not accomplishing the things that they want and you're just... You're kind of pointing that out to them by just living your best life. And, you know, he said don't get mad at haters. That's their job. So, you know, let them hate. [inaudible 00:23:08] If that's the life they want to lead, let them do that, but don't let that become any kind of indicator of what you need to stop doing something or change something.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
It just means you're doing something right.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:23:20]
Carol:
You're actually living your best life.
Casey:
The other thing I love is like when people think that you should do things exactly the way they do them.
Carol:
Yes.
Casey:
Because, that's the right way. You know?
Carol:
Yes.
Casey:
And so, you know, I had somebody ask me the other day. They're like... Or, say something to me the other day about, you know, because, you know, I... I do still recruit on top of all the other stuff that I do for the media and they were like, "How come your numbers are so low?." And, before, that would have really bothered me but that's not my focus right now. It's your focus but don't put your goals on me.
Carol:
Yeah. Oh. Love that. That is so true and so... And, that could really... When we get into comparing ourselves with other people, we lose sight of what our goals and what we want to do because we're looking at other people doing things, thinking that we should do that too, as opposed to keeping our eye on the prize, which is where knowing what we want, knowing our values, which I love that you said that, that you know your values and lean into them. I think that is so critical important. And, really keeping your eye on the prize which I think is great.
Carol:
You know, you talked about... I want to just like kind of skip a little bit over into your day job, if you will.
Casey:
Okay.
Carol:
About... About recruiting.
Casey:
That's what I call it.
Carol:
I know. I know. Because, you have so much to do and I want to come back to this conversation because it's so important. But, you know, right now we are in just crazyville time. I mean, ever since Covid, the landscape of the workplace has changed, has shifted. You know, the remote work and hybrid workplaces and how organizations are even thinking about themselves and their values and their relationship to employees have changed. There's been so much that has happened that I always... You know, I always say that we're in a new work revolution and what used to work is not working anymore so you got to stay informed and in touch with things.
Carol:
And so, as a recruiter, I would love just to hear your insight, insider tracks on like what are some of the things that have been changing. Like, if... If I am somebody mid-career and I want to make a shift, what are the things that I need to do to really prepare myself for this new landscape, for this new way of doing things, if I wanted to step into something else?
Casey:
Well, it has certainly changed quite a bit since... I mean, I've never seen a market like this in my 10 years of recruiting. You know? First of all, employees are definitely in the driver's seat. I think we may see that change in the next eight to 18 months, depending on what happens with this recession, which I don't want to talk about. But... But, for now, you know, for every person out there, there's two jobs waiting and so it is a time. Companies are desperate. I just read an article today about company... A lot of companies. Not a lot, but they're moving towards getting rid of even having a requirement that you have a degree in some areas.
Carol:
Wow.
Casey:
Where traditionally you would have been required to have a degree. So, I think this opens the door for a lot of people to make that shift. But, if you are thinking about making a shift, number one... Again, I know I keep going back to the inner work, but I think it is so important. Figure out what it is that you really, really want to do. Think about what you loved doing when you were a child. You know? And, see if you can convert that into something that will help you earn money.
Casey:
I love assessments. There's a great assessment on my website. It's free to anybody that wants to take it that really... It is... The whole purpose of this assessment is to see what you're wired to do. Okay?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
It measures several different areas but the most important part is the how you're wired internally and this doesn't change. So, just for example, when I took this assessment the first time because I was actually looking at a bunch of different assessments to use for hiring and I took this assessment and the consultant's going over it and they're like, "Wow. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to do."
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
"You're this big picture person. You're not into the details. You don't want that. You don't want to be bothered by the details. You want... You just want to go and have these great ideas and then... And, love on people and then go and go do something else." Which is very true. That's what I love to do. That's why I do so many different things. He goes, "You know, you probably... Something you wouldn't have been good at was an accountant." Oh. Wish somebody had told me that 20 years ago.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
So, that's why it's so important to know yourself. Okay?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, to know what makes you happy to get out of bed in the morning. That's what I ask my candidates when I'm talking to them. What's going to make you happy to get up and go to work tomorrow?
Carol:
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Casey:
Tell me what that is and I'll go find it for you.
Carol:
I... I... You know, I'm glad you're saying this because I always tell like my clients that this is... It's an inner and outer game. Right? And, the... And, you... There's the tactics and the strategies and all of that stuff, but the inner part, the inner game, is like getting your mindset clear, knowing your values, knowing what you're good at, your zone of genius, what... You know, all of that internal stuff. But, they just don't... They never taught us that that's what you should focus on.
Casey:
Yeah.
Carol:
I mean, there have been assessments around forever, but I think... You know, I think they've become like white noise for a lot of people.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
Like, they take them and then they shelve them.
Casey:
Yep.
Carol:
And, don't really know how to look at them to gain the insight about who they are and how that applies to what they want to do. And so, I love that you're talking about that a lot of that the change and the nature of how things are going requires us to first get super clear on who we are and what we want so we know what to go after. What about...?
Casey:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:28:54] moving targets.
Carol:
Yeah. Totally. Totally. What about like ageism in recruiting? You know, I remember having a conversation with someone who was doing diversity within an organization and admittedly, she said, "You know, the one place that we don't do a good job on is ableism and ageism." You know, like there's so many other factors when we look at the spectrum for diversity and equity that we look at but those two, we still have a ways to do. There's still a lot of myths and stereotypes and things of that nature that... You know, and assumptions that people have to overcome. Have you seen anything kind of shift with that kind of population, with people who are midlife who are deciding that they want to change? Because, I know that too can keep people stuck, is thinking, "Well, they'll never hire me. I'm too old or I've been in this job for too long and no one's going to... You know, they just want young whippersnappers, not me."
Casey:
Yeah. So, we've definitely seen a shift in that. There has been a report that came out and I can't remember who put it out recently about... Have you heard about the unretireds?
Carol:
No.
Casey:
Yeah. So, a lot of people retired early at the beginning of the pandemic because it was just easier. Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, so many of the jobs went away like that.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, so... But, now with the labor shortages that we're having, they're calling. They're reaching back into that pool of those baby boomers and saying, "No, no, no. We need you to come back."
Carol:
Wow.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:30:20]. Yeah. So, that's happening right now. So, will it ever go away, the ageism thing? Probably not, unfortunately.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, it's not as critical an issue at this point. In fact, there was one sign. I don't know if you saw this. It was a... I think it was a Dollar Tree where a manager put a sign in the window. He says, "Help wanted. No millennials or Gen Z's."
Carol:
That's interesting.
Casey:
Yeah. And, it was because he had just had two... I can't remember if they were Gen Z's or not. Two walk off the job because he told them your boyfriend can't stay here your entire shift. And, they both walked off the job. And so, he was like, I'm done with that generation. You know?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
I think that they get a bad rap. Don't get me wrong.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because, I question the security at that place. Right?
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:31:10]
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
There's probably so much more going on than we know about. But, at the same time, I think that... For now, I think that if someone in their, during their midlife, wants to make a career change, I think they're going to have a much easier time doing that. But, go explore. I know not everybody gets the opportunity to go sit for a day like I did, but you can definitely find ways to go explore opportunities or things that you might want to do.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. I call them like little mini pilot studies because I had to do one when I was getting my dissertation that they make you go do a little sample of what you want to research just to test it out to see if that's the right direction you want to go. And, I think that is so smart to like go do a little mini experiment or like take a test drive like you would for a car any of your career interests or opportunities to see if that really is the right path for you. You know, like you did.
Casey:
Yeah.
Carol:
Which opened up something so much more great for you.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:32:07]
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. So... So, how...? What's the best way to work with recruiters? You know? I know there are different type. You know?
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
So, I know that's part of it as well. But, what's the best way to work with a recruiter?
Casey:
Respectfully.
Carol:
Okay.
Casey:
That's the first thing that comes to mind. So, just remember, like if you're... Depending on the type of recruiter you're engaging with, most of us are contingency recruiters which means we get paid by the company when we find the talent that they want. Okay?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Candidates get to use us for free, but free should not mean that we're not worth something. Okay? I... You know, I've had candidates that want me to do all the work for them and they're like [inaudible 00:32:44]. One candidate in particular. He's like, "We're going to have weekly meetings. You can tell me what you've done on my behalf and see so that I can get a job." And, I'm like, "No, we're not. I don't report to you weekly." You know?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
That's not what a recruiter is there for. It's okay to stay engaged with them but don't make demands. You know? We... We have... You know, we're working on probably about 170 different open opportunities right now.
Carol:
Wow.
Casey:
And, they're all very different.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
They all require a very different skill set. Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
So, just because you come to me and you are the best candidate in the world doesn't mean I'm going to have an opportunity for you that day. So, be patient with your recruiter. And, I'll tell you something else. We probably only place about 20% of the people that we engage with and it's not because we don't want to. I'd be a millionaire if I placed everybody that I engaged with. Right?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
I want to. It's just... It's a matter of timing and it doesn't always work out.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
So, if you want to get in touch with a recruiter, the first thing that I would do is probably go on LinkedIn and pick your recruiter wisely.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, then engage there first and [inaudible 00:33:51]. And, don't sales. Just say, "You know, I saw that you are posting a lot. I see that you've been recruiting for a while." It's okay to say, "Hey, I'm looking for a job. Are you taking on any additional candidates right now?."
Carol:
Hmm. Great. Love that. I love that. And, recruiters tend to be open to that kind of introduction.
Casey:
Mm-hmm.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And, all recruiters are different on how they want to be contacted but I promise you if the first time I hear from you is a phone call, I'm probably going to be less likely to want to engage just because I don't... This is weird and this may just be me, but I just don't feel that's very respectful of my time.
Carol:
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Casey:
I want you to... You know, I need to get to know you. I want you to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Send me an email. You know, my email's on LinkedIn.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know, on my profile.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
So, you know, reach out to me that way. Let's establish some communication to make sure that I am the right person to help you.
Carol:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Casey:
And, if not, I'll refer you to somebody.
Carol:
Yeah. So, that also means you need to have your LinkedIn profile together.
Casey:
Yeah.
Carol:
Because, obviously you're going to take a gander at that and if it's empty or nothing's there or it seems not to be impressive, you're not going to waste your time with that either because how could you even know anything about them to know what to place them or what to do with them.
Casey:
Well, and one other piece of advice that's kind of off topic that I'll give. Make sure your resume and your LinkedIn match.
Carol:
Hmm. Ooh. Okay.
Casey:
You would think that's a no brainer, but I'm telling you, we come across that more [inaudible 00:35:17] and it just raises red flags even if it wasn't intended to raise a red flag.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
It's going to raise red flags and it's going to make that potential employer question whether or not they want to hire you.
Carol:
Oh, wow. Okay. That's good to know. That is really good to know. What are some of the ways that people are mix matching? Or, is it just that they're putting... Not putting all of the positions they have or they're talking about them differently or that type of thing? Okay.
Casey:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dates, sometimes.
Carol:
Oh, the dates are off. Okay.
Casey:
Sometimes [inaudible 00:35:45].
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, here's another thing that I... Oh. Here's a good little tip from a recruiter. So, once you send us your resume, you are in our database. That resume is there forever. Okay? It doesn't go away. We don't forget about it.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
If you change your resume and lie and send us a new resume five, 10 years later, we got the old one to compare it to. You're going to get caught.
Carol:
Ooh. Interesting. Okay.
Casey:
But, just know any information you send a recruiter will be there forever.
Carol:
Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. But, if you're going to update it with legitimate information, by all means, send that in.
Casey:
Correct. Yes.
Carol:
But, yeah. Don't... Don't try to rewrite history.
Casey:
It... Oh, I like that. Better than saying lie.
Carol:
Right. Gotcha. Gotcha. I love it. I love it. Thank you for that. Okay. So, I... I'm really curious about this journal that we talked about early on, Awaken Your Potential. Tell me about this new journal that's coming out and what prompted it and what's it about.
Casey:
Well, I'm going to take you back a little ways. Okay? I am... I don't do anything halfway. We're just going to say that. Okay?
Carol:
Okay.
Casey:
So, anything that I decide to do, I like do it way over the top. And so, that's how journaling started for me and I became a journal junkie. Okay? And so, I journal about every area of my life because I think it's so important that you're... It's that whole inner work, that whole awareness. Right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And so, it got to the point where I was carrying around four or five, depending on the time of year, different journals.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
I mean, it got so bad I had to get a cart so that I could get them into the office along with all my other stuff. Right?
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
And so, I said, this is silly. There's got to be a journal that's all in one, all inclusive. Right? And, I went to the market and I looked and I looked and I looked and I couldn't find one and I was like, "Fine. I'm going to make one." And so, Awaken Your Potential was born out of what the journal that I wanted for me. Okay? So, there's six different sections. I call it a very holistic journal. It is a quarterly journal. I know you said, "Ooh, that's thick." Yeah. That's just one quarter.
Carol:
Oh, wow.
Casey:
There's a lot of work in there. It's not for the faint of heart.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
It's for the high performer, right?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
But, it's got mindset, affirmations, efficiency, which is your habit stacking. If you've not read Atomic Habits, I highly recommend it.
Carol:
Oh. Great book. I recommend it too.
Casey:
Yep. Goal setting. Productivity. That's your daily pages. That's where most of the work's going to be done. Okay? And, finance. All in one quarterly journal so it's all right there with prompts throughout to say, "Go look at this. Go look at this. Hey, what about? Did you check your goals this week? And, in the mornings, did you do your affirmations?." But, you know, one of the things that I do in the mindset section is I have you go through and list your internal rules and this is... Whenever you're making a big decision or any decision at all, you need to be making them against a set of rules.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
What's important to you? Not what's important to anybody else, but what's important to you. And, that kind of goes back to not having that fear.
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
If you know what your internal rules are.
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
And, there's also a section... And, I give resources throughout this entire thing. There's probably 30 different resources listed in here.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, it's basically books I've read that I've picked up a strategy that I've incorporated into this journal. But, also, there's a section to do your core values.
Carol:
Hmm. [inaudible 00:39:08].
Casey:
And, I... And, I do them every quarter just to make sure nothing's changed.
Carol:
Yeah. Oh, wow.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:39:15]. There's a hidden section too that I didn't mention. It's not a section on its own but it's still definitely in there and that's health because on the daily pages there's a section that's... And, everybody hates it, but it's got... List your weight. How much did you sleep? How many steps did you take? Because, it holds you accountable.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And, health is so important. This is the only body we're going to get. Right?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
And, so... And, at the end of each week, I put a section in there because this was, again, another journal that I was using. Meal planning. I mean, how many times do you get home and you're like, "Oh my God. I didn't set anything out."
Carol:
Right.
Casey:
Or, "I have no idea what we're going to have. Let's just go to McDonald's." You know?
Carol:
Right. Yeah.
Casey:
That's not good for you.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
If you meal plan, you're more likely to eat healthy. And, I even put a grocery list in there right behind the meal planning so that you can write down what you need as you're meal planning and tear that out and go to the grocery store.
Carol:
Oh, wow. This is a comprehensive journal. I love this.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
And, I love that you included that in there because, you know, I have... You know, as I get older and realizing how foundational health is, that if that... It's like the house you build everything on and if your health is not where it needs to be, that everything else is going to be shaky that you try to build on it.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:40:22]
Carol:
So, I love that you added that in there.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:40:24]
Carol:
That is so powerful. Yeah. Please.
Casey:
I just want to say. One question... One thing that I ask that I prompt you, because it's very prompted. Right? But, there's an evening check in as well and one of the questions that it asks is, how did you take care of yourself today? [inaudible 00:40:38] How did you invest in yourself?
Carol:
I love that. I love that. That is amazing. So, how long did it take you to put this together and when is it going to be coming out so we can all grab a copy of it?
Casey:
Well, it took me way longer than I originally thought it was going to. I had planned to have it released in six months. It's now been two years. But, it's definitely a labor of love. We are at the printers right now and it should be released probably towards the end of November.
Carol:
Okay. Oh, awesome. And, is there a way for us to get on the wait list for it?
Casey:
Absolutely. You can go to my website at caseyhasten.com and there is a place where you can scroll down and it'll say sign up for notifications for Awaken Your Potential.
Carol:
Oh, fabulous. And, I'll make sure I add that in the show notes so that we can all get on the list to get that because that sounds absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing. And so, you said it's a quarterly journal but [inaudible 00:41:29] we are doing daily work in it.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
But, we're looking at our quarters.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
To see how we're doing. I love that and I think that's such a fabulous way. I talk about when people do goal planning to look at the quarter because it gives you a good enough time to actually get things done and you do enough to actually sit back and evaluate how that went to see if you need to make any changes.
Casey:
Let me just tell you about the goal section just real quick.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
Because, I think it's brilliant. Okay? So, I broke the goals up into three different sections. Okay? So, you've got your long term goals and these... I define those in this journal as anything 90 days plus.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
So, this could be your long goal. Right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
You've got your short term goals. This is anything that's 30 to 90 days to completion. Okay?
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Now, these are normally going to support your long term goals.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
Right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
And then, beneath each of these goals you're going to chunk out. You're going to have your chunk action items, things you want to get... Need to do. And, I mean, when you dissect it this way, it makes it so easy. You start with the big picture, then you start narrowing it down and then you have your micro goals. These are things that could support your short term and your long term or they could just be things that need to get done right now and that's anything that has to be completed in less than 30 days. So, it's all broken down for you and it's got such a great flow on how to get it done.
Casey:
I'm telling you. I... The first time I did this, long time ago, before I had the journal, and I went back at the end of the quarter and it was... It was... I was going to launch my personal brand. That's what it was. That was my first goal that I set. Okay? And, I went and I said I want to have this done by the end of Q two. And, I kid you not. My personal website went live three days after Q two.
Carol:
[inaudible 00:43:12]
Casey:
And, I went back and I was... Because, I look at my goals to see how far I've come and I'm like, [inaudible 00:43:15]. Check. You know?
Carol:
Yeah. Isn't that something, how that works? Yeah.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:43:20]
Carol:
And, I love that you're asking people to break it down because I think we get intimidated by goals because we say... We set this big goal like your brand or your website.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
And, not realizing there's 25 steps to that and so if we can break it down and just focus on the steps as opposed to keeping our eye on the big goal, we don't get overwhelmed by it. And, having something like using this journal to actually plot and plan that out I think is amazing.
Casey:
You know, something else I want to add there too is that even though I knew this journal... I mean, that's a whole nother step of reaching a goal, is having this journal in the hands of the public. But, it has been such a journey and such a joyful journey every step of the way that it's almost sad that it's going to print but not really. You know what I mean?
Carol:
Oh, totally.
Casey:
Because, I just... I want people to be present. I want them to enjoy the journey and not just rush to the finish line because then what are you going to do?
Carol:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's where all the juice and the goodness is.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
That's where all the excitement and excellent is, is on the journey. You are so right. If we stop becoming destination focused, and sometimes when we're too destination focused, we miss all of the growth, the learning, the joy, the ups, the downs, the stretching and the growing that happens along the way.
Casey:
Yes.
Carol:
So, I love that you said that and to sit back and enjoy the journey and not just focus on the destination.
Casey:
Yeah. When I first started the podcast, I was... And, it's been three years, by the way. But, it was... I was so focused on getting everything perfect that it was really stiff in the beginning. Right? Now, I go in. If I mess up, just like I did earlier [inaudible 00:45:03]. You know, I don't care. It's just... It's fine.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey:
Just go enjoy being with the people that have graciously given their time. And, it's just so much easier now.
Carol:
Yeah. Ah. Love it. So... So, listen. I would love to hear your thoughts about what does it mean to be a career rebel. Like, what does that mean to you when you hear that?
Casey:
I think for... When I hear career rebel, and I would certainly think that I am a career rebel.
Carol:
I would agree with that.
Casey:
I think it's not being afraid to make changes or embrace changes that come along. There, for the longest time when I started with VIP, I really held on to that role of hiring and building a team and doing all that and... But, I kept taking on all this other stuff too and I held on to that identity of being that director of recruiter, recruiting, for so long and I'm still... I still do that. But, it's shifted now to where my focus is more on the podcast. It's more on the media appearances. It's more on the networking and less on the recruiting. Just like I said earlier, my numbers... You know, somebody asked me why are your numbers so low the other day. Because, that's not my focus.
Casey:
But, I had to give myself permission to go a different direction and be okay with and let go of something that I thought was really important.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
I had a book I was writing that I thought was really important and I had to let go.
Carol:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know, I put some time into that and... But, it was like... It just didn't make sense anymore.
Carol:
Mm-hmm.
Casey:
And, so, I mean, I think a career rebel to me is someone that's not afraid to take chances and to be okay with saying goodbye to a time that no longer serves.
Carol:
Hmm. Ooh. Powerful. Love that. Saying goodbye to a time that no longer serves. Wow. I love it. So, Casey, what's next for you? I know this isn't it.
Casey:
[inaudible 00:46:59]. No, it's not [inaudible 00:47:00]. No, it's not it. So, what's next for me? I've got a couple of things on the horizon, but I have been named to take over a 34 year old networking organization that I am just super humbled and honored that I was chosen to do this out of all the different people that could. But, the next thing, and I'm just going to put out there for accountability... I'm doing a Ted X talk.
Carol:
Ooh. Exciting. I love it. Oh. I... I... That... You know, I remember when I put that down as my [inaudible 00:47:34] that's what I want to do and [inaudible 00:47:35] it came to fruition and so I cannot wait to hear when that's going to take place and to watch it and to share it with everybody because I know it's going to be absolutely amazing.
Casey:
Thank you.
Carol:
Well, Casey, I just want to thank you for being with me today. This has been, as usual, a delightful, enjoyable, info-packed filled conversation and, I mean, you just dropped so many gems and nuggets and information that I'm sure people listening to can just glean from. This is going to be one you're going to want to earmark and listen to again and again and again because there's so much in here to really unpack. So, thank you so much for taking time out of your I know what is a very busy schedule and to be on this podcast with me.
Casey:
It was my pleasure and anytime you want to have a conversation, recorded or not, you just call me.
Carol:
I will absolutely do that. Thank you.
Carol:
Well, that's it for today, rebels. This has been an amazing conversation. Please stay tuned because we're going to have even more conversations coming up this season. And, listen. In the interim, have an amazingly rebellious week. I'll see you soon.
