Carol:
Hey, hey, hey, rebels. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. I am so super psyched today because I have one of my clients from the Career Rebel Academy on, who's going to talk about her experience in the group and where she is, where she's going and other amazing things today, which I'm so excited for you to hear and share about. I talk about the Career Rebel Academy a lot of times on this podcast, and I think it's nice every now and again to talk to someone who actually went through it, as opposed to hearing what I have to say about it. Tayla is here to share her experience. She's an exceptional woman, a brilliant strategist in marketing and PR and advertising. She brings so much to the table and in terms of the work that she does and the impact that she makes in the world, so I'm excited to welcome her here.
Carol:
Let me just give you a little intro of who this amazing woman is. Tayla is the executive vice president of health equity and multicultural strategy at M Booth Health, where she leads and guides. The agency's work on health equity and multicultural communication. Now, Tayla is most passionate about advancing diversity, equity and inclusion and healthcare, and has counseled health organizations on DEI strategy and cross-cultural communications and has worked with diverse patient populations to create inclusive programs, to address care gaps. She's also an active writer and speaker on the importance of addressing inequities in healthcare communications and business. And she has been recognized by The Healthcare Businesswomen's Association for the amazing work that she has done in this field. So with that, I would love to welcome you to the show, Tayla.
Tayla:
Hello, hello, hello. Happy to be here.
Carol:
I am so excited to have this conversation with you. So Tayla, I just want to open up. Let's go back to the beginning before you joined the program. Tell us what was going on in your world, in your mind that made you decide that, "I need to seek something out for some support," in relationship to your career.
Tayla:
So to be very vivid, I was about six months pregnant.
Carol:
I love that so much.
Tayla:
I was about six months pregnant with my first child in my 40s, laying in bed at midnight, scrolling through LinkedIn, looking from for some inspiration on where I should go next, and your ad popped up and I started reading and everything resonated. From do you feel like your work aligns with your values? Does it feel like there's time to make a change? Does work feel laborious? I was like, "Yes, yes, yes." So as I was laying there, I was in a life change mode, but I was also reflecting on my current position where I was leading and running a full service agency and I had reached this senior level position that I had always aspired to reach, but I found that my time, my energy, my focus was away from the work and it was more so focused on managing up and focus on internal stakeholders. I just really needed to realign myself and so I felt like this program would help me do that.
Carol:
Awesome. I love that. So you got to this point, six month pregnant and I love the fact ... Let me just ask for a moment. I mean, because at six months pregnant, most people would say, "Oh, I'll wait till after the baby comes. I won't start a program where I have three more months to go before I get birth." I remember when we met and you're like, "We have three months to get this together," which I love. But most people would be like, "Oh no, let me just wait till after. Now's not a good time." What made you say that even in the midst of being six months pregnant, like, "Let's go, let's make this happen."
Tayla:
Because I knew that that was the time that I would have to focus on myself. Once the baby arrived, I wouldn't be number one anymore. So I would say prior to the baby, I've been blessed with opportunities, support, and frankly, lack of interruption to focus on what I needed to do. So I just thought I have this time, this is on my mind, clearly I'm up in the middle of the night so it's keeping me up and I would have the time of maternity leave separate from ... away from my job to really deeply reflect on what's going on in my life. For me, it just felt like the perfect time.
Carol:
Yeah. That is so smart to, one, prioritize yourself and to really clearly see that you wanted to have time to be able to focus on yourself, to focus on this work and finding that this is the better time to do it than after the baby comes because you're right, once the baby comes, all hell breaks loose. For anybody who has kid understands that, so that is so smart. That's so smart. So let me ask you what made ... so you read all of my stuff, you saw me on LinkedIn, you were resonating with it, you knew you had the time right now. What made you say, even though you saw what I wrote, that this was the right program for you, as opposed to maybe going in another route or another direction? What was it about the program itself that really resonated for you to say yes to it?
Tayla:
Well, I've had multiple coaches in the past and I don't feel like I've gained traction or done anything that I couldn't do on my own. So I think what was helpful for me was the combination of both doing the work, the reflective self discovery work ... so I had never done that depth of work before and so I realized that without that work, the output was going to be the same. So the depth of the self discovery work, plus obviously getting the benefit of your coaching expertise and the diversity of your background, plus the group sessions. So it felt like, okay, if I could combine career coaching with a therapy session, those combined would help me get to a different place.
Carol:
I love that. I love that you talked about mindset because I always talk about that. Doing any kind of work, if you want to advance or transition or pivot in your career, it's both an inner game and an outer game. I think people underestimated and undervalue the mindset, the inner work that has to take place with it and they just are so focused on give me the tools, give me the transactional piece, which we do that in the program and we definitely have some practical application and tools to work with, but I would love to hear your experience about how much mindset played a factor in you being able to step out of where you were to moving into this amazing position that you have right now.
Tayla:
So I'll start by saying I'm the type of person that reads every self-help book and just delves into everything, but related to mindset, I remember reading the book Mindset by Carol Dweck and really focusing in on having a growth mindset. Right? So making sure that my head space is always in a place where I'm looking for how can I be better? How can I grow? How can I develop new skills? So coming at it from that perspective, and then coupling that with the self discovery work, it helped me to realize that one, there's a market for my skills and my expertise. Two, maybe some of the decisions that I have been making in the past might been limiting and safe. So I would say the work and gaining the clarity on where I wanted to go coupled with having other people along that journey helped me to squash some of the limiting beliefs and to take a leap, frankly.
Carol:
Yeah. So that discovery journey, that's one of the first things that we work our way to get in the program. You've mentioned that a few times about how eye opening that was for you. Could you just speak a little bit more about that process and how it helped you to figure some things out that weren't as clear or as available to you before you came into the program?
Tayla:
Yeah. I think that we often time jump to the solution without wanting to sit down and do the work. I'm guilty of this as well. So sitting down and thinking about what do I like, my personality. I was surprised by some of the responses and realizing, "Oh, I like to build and create with minimal restrictions." So then yes, that's why I'm frustrated in a large organization where I have to get a hundred signatures. It helped answer and address some of, frankly, the aspects about my current workplace that were draining to me. Right? Also the clarity around what maybe my Achilles heel is and the idea that as I'm a type A and I'm a highly high achieving person there, the balance of that is the desire for significance and the need to be recognized for my accomplishments.
Tayla:
That caused me to look inward a bit and say, "Wait a minute. Why am I looking for validation? How am I looking for validation? How do I need to change those behaviors as I move forward or just kind of keep an eye out for it?" But I mean, ultimately doing that work helped me just get very clear and clarity, I believe, leads to confidence to make the step. Because oftentimes you always burst our bubble when we say this, "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know," is the crutch, but when you think about what you do know and also combining that with where you are in your life and what you need and what role the career plays within your broader life, all of that combined was eye opening for me.
Carol:
Wow. That's so awesome. What I love about it is that getting that clarity helped you when it came down to tactics and strategies and things, because you knew which ones to take and which direction to move forward to. Would you say that's true?
Tayla:
Yeah. I think of greater significance is where not to go.
Carol:
Yeah.
Tayla:
Where not to go, because perhaps that environment doesn't align with a place where I might thrive, which I believe is critically important for a woman of color. Also, what next step is going to align with where I am in my life? I would emphasize that because my values are consistent, but the emphasis on them has evolved with me having a child now. So I have a newborn. So the needs of being a parent of a newborn are completely different than a woman in my early 40s with not a care in the world and the world can revolve around work. So I had to think differently and move differently.
Carol:
Yes, and that's one of the things that we talk a lot about is aligning that career life alignment, is why I tend not to focus on work life balance, but really career life alignment, because your career is just a piece of the ecosystem of your life, right? It is not everything. So it is important to think about at this stage in juncture in my life, the way it looks, what makes the most sense for me. Right? Then what makes the most sense is I think about where I want to go with my newborn and my family and what does that look like in the future? So we're always thinking about our career in juxtaposition to the entire scope of our life and how we want to live. So I love that really resonated for you. Is that something that was really a different practice or a different way of thinking that you found in the program?
Tayla:
Oh, completely different. Because I mentioned I had an uninterrupted focus on my career previously. Even though I was married, thankfully I have a supportive partner, so it was, "If you want to change a job, if you need to travel, if you need to do this and that, just go ahead and do it." So I'll be transparent about saying having a child is a very obvious moment where you have to think about career/life alignment, but I think as women, we oftentimes forget about our personal stages of life when it's not connected to another human being and what we need out of that and what we're ready for and how our career needs to fit within our broader life goals.
Carol:
Yeah. One of the things that I love about the program too is that we do this in community. That's a big part of it. I know sometimes ... it's funny because some people, I remember having conversations before they joined, were like, "I don't know those women. I don't know if I want to put all my business out there." We've been raised in this kind of patriarchal thinking around independence and not needing anyone and this competitive way of being as opposed to what I think is more aligned with feminine power, which is more collaboration and community. I would love to hear your thoughts on the community and how it helped you on your journey into stepping into something new and something more aligned.
Tayla:
The greatest aspect of the community is just knowing that you're not alone, because I think all of us have had those moments where we're lying in bed at midnight, thinking about what our next steps are and we think, "Oh, it's just me," or, "Perhaps I'm the only person that feels that way." But hearing very accomplished women, from doctors to business owners and everything in between say, "Yeah, I feel the same way, I'm having these similar challenges," and particularly people at various stages of life, people in various industries and just having that understanding that we're going through something similar, it's okay and there is no one answer is pretty satisfying.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that you all helped each other too, right? Because the idea that knowledge is held in just one mind and not in the collective, I think is something I don't believe in. I think it was really powerful. I love to see when you all were helping each other, supporting each other in the group too.
Tayla:
Well, and sometimes it is that ... you got to check yourself, right? Because many of us will come to the group with, "Hey, this happened today and I'm going to talk to that person. I'm going to tell them off and I'm going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But then that pause of, "Okay, what mindset are you in? What emotions are you attaching to this? What are you making it mean?" It was almost that pause moment to really self reflect and say, "Okay, I need to actually show up differently and move differently if I want to a different outcome, even within my current environment, much less the next step."
Carol:
Yes. Oh, I just love it. Goosebumps. Okay. So one of the things ... so throughout the course of the program, you shift careers and I definitely want to talk a little bit about even that journey. What do you think are some of the challenges that women are having when they are considering making a change or a difference, particularly at midlife, when we've been in this career, we've been in this mindset, this way of thinking, climbing that ladder on and on and on. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges or fears that women have to actually put stake in the ground to say, "You know what? I am going to prioritize myself. I am going to step into something different." Because you have the haters, the naysayers, you have people who are like, "What? It's a good job. What are you doing?" So from just your opinion, what do you think are some of the challenges and fears that women have when it comes to making shifts and changes in their career?
Tayla:
One of them, I would say, is the guilt association with prioritizing yourself. So doing the work to get clear. "Oh, I don't have time to spend an hour to think about myself. That feels so selfish. I have so many other things to do." So that's one. Two, I would say, is the need for stability, which it comes with being an adult, responsible adult, and that destabilizing, be it financial situation, your work situation and so forth. So I do think maybe there's a fear of destabilizing what's currently in place. The other piece that resonates with me is trust in your ability to navigate the change and all that comes with that, and to know that it'll be okay.
Tayla:
It's almost like you want the confirmation that your life will be better before taking the leap and that's just not going to happen. So that is unsettling, particularly for, I would say myself. Folks who want to be in control and like, "I've got this in control already. Why would I just completely blow up my situation and not know what's on the other side?" So I think sometimes you have to trust in your own ability to navigate the change.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that you said that, because the way you phrased it, I think is so true, is that really, it's a mindset. The fear creates this narrative or the story that you're going to blow everything up, that it's not going to be the same, that you're going to miss out on things. We could get so trapped into that fear and not do the work to just like, "Well, is that really true? Will I really let my life blow up? Will I really not be employed? Will I really create a situation or put myself in a situation that's not going to be the best for myself and my family?" So a lot of it just becomes the story we create in our mind. Right? Is that what you found?
Tayla:
I'm going to mess this up, but I feel like you always asked the question, what if it were true that everything works out all right? What if you flip the question and success is on the other side? Then what is your mindset? How do you move? What are your actions? I actually did that work of what if success were true? How do I need to behave? How do I need to show up? What do I need to believe in order to align with that way of thinking? I think oftentimes it's very easy to play out the whole scenario when it's negative or when it's current state. I don't think we allow ourselves the time to dream a bit.
Carol:
Yeah. Oh, wow. That is so true. Our brain does throw out the negative to us because it's just trying to protect us because it doesn't know. It's so important not to let the treachery of how, which I would say, to stop you from moving forward, and you're right. Because we don't give ourself enough time to dream, we kind of stop at all the negative thinking and let that stop us in our track as opposed to shifting it to ... I love how you shared that, shifting it about thinking, "Well, what if greatness is on the other side of it?" as opposed to all the negative, which I think is so powerful, a powerful way to think about it. So I love that that was really helpful for you.
Carol:
I always say to people that the future is unwritten. We get to create the future. We know what happened in the past, but the future we get to create. If you want different future, you have to think differently to create that. Because if you think the way you were thinking, you'll just recreate the past in the future, and you don't want to do that. So I love how you talked about just shifting that, thinking it in a different way so that you can step into something different.
Tayla:
But think about how revolutionary that is. It's easier said than done.
Carol:
Totally.
Tayla:
It's a daily practice. I'm excited by the Lauren when you said the future's unwritten. I'm equal parts excited and terrified by that. What control do I have over? What do I need to do? So it's just a daily practice and a lot of times, even in doing this work, I'll say you want to think that it's a destination, that, "Ooh, I will have changed my mindset. I will change my job. Everything will be perfect. I will move past it." But really no matter where you are, there you are. Right? So your mindset and what you can control is you. So I always think about the book The Alchemist and even something I'm dealing with at work currently, I remember saying to someone, "This feels like deja vu, so clearly I haven't learned this lesson. So I need to sit down and think about what I'm doing in this current situation and change it so I can change the outcome."
Carol:
Yes. Oh, that is deep. That's some deep thinking there. That is so true. But that is true, is that we do ... we have these fairytale belief systems, right? We were raised with it. We were taught that there's a happily ever after at the end of the story and not realizing that the story is just being written. I would love if they would make movies, like all those fairy tales, Cinderella and Snow White. What happens after? Show her and Prince Charming cursing each other out because he let the wagon out and [inaudible 00:23:22] just whatever. Show the real deal about on the other side of what we think is happily ever after. They never show us that part and so we get to the top thinking, "Oh, we've arrived," and it's like, no, the work is starting again.
Tayla:
Yeah, and that relates to the career fairytale that we've all been told. Right? We want the happily ever after and some of that is socialized through what we see, you mentioned the media, but I'll say some of it, I hold onto to maintain optimism. Because if I just believe that this shit is just continuous and this is all that there's going to be, that's not very motivating. But if I can believe that every step is a step closer to me, that to me is motivating and keeps my energy up.
Carol:
Yeah. The thing that's mind blowing for people is that career happiness is something you create and not something that we should look for from a job. That's usually the mind blowing thing. It's like we put so much ... it's like saying, "I'm getting married because I want him to make me happy," or, "I'm having a baby because I want the baby to make me feel fulfilled," or, "I'm buying this car because then I'll look more successful." Right? What people don't realize is that all of those feelings have to get generated by yourself. Then you bring that to wherever you go. That is a huge shift. Career happiness truly is embedded in you and then you bring that and you come into whatever workplace you're in and you make it amazing. It's why for some people staying in wherever they are is the answer and for others leaving is the answer, because just as you said so amazingly perfect before, where you go, you are.
Tayla:
But it's so hard when you connect that back to we as women often have that guilt with prioritizing ourselves, so if you don't take the time ... and again, this is a lifelong journey for all of us. If you don't take the time to get clear on who you are, to like who you are, to continue to develop who you are, then you'll always be behind the eight ball on bringing your full self anywhere.
Carol:
Yes. That is so true and that's why the program is six months. I would love for you to talk about when you saw that, were you like, "Six months? What?" Or nine months or whatever. It was nine months and we moved to six months, but I know some people sometimes think, "Wait a minute, I need this settled in the next three weeks." Talk about why the six months is such a great container for doing this work.
Tayla:
It personally worked for me because I compared it to birthing a new career, so I was already in that months and weeks counting mindset, but I think it takes time to do the work of discovery. So I think for me, the discovery piece, albeit one aspect of the program, is very important because we often skip that part. So before I started updating my resume, looking for new jobs, getting clear on who I was and what I wanted for my next career step allowed me to show up differently when I entered the next phase. I can't remember the name of it, but when I started acting upon it and started reaching out to employers, I reached out with a certain level of clarity of saying, "Hey, here's who I am. Here's what I'm looking for. You can either meet me there, or I can see you later."
Tayla:
So those conversations, I found that I yielded a different level of respect from the employers and many of them I still have relationships with on this may not be the next step for me, but maybe next year or maybe next time. So it gave me a greater command of my job search journey, and then to be able to then layer onto that networking and the grunt work that goes into finding a job and the marketing of yourself and getting all of that ... I mean, it takes time.
Carol:
Yeah. It's nice to have ... the reason I set it up that way is for people to have the space to take the time so you didn't feel rushed, you did feel hurried, you didn't was like, "Okay, in eight weeks, you got to get it done," but that you can actually wrestle with and indulge in some things and get the support that you need while you're moving through the process and a container that really supports you to do that.
Tayla:
Also, I think the other piece that can go understated is the ability to share with and hear from the other members of the community. Because in some respects, we were able to broaden someone's blueprint. Or, "You're thinking small. Are you sure?" To push each other to rethink it. So that was helpful, whether that happened on the group calls or, "Hey, I'm just checking in on you. I saw X, Y, Z." I really appreciate people saying, "Something you said on the call resonated with me. Thank you." Or, "Something you said on the call sat with me. I want to give you this resource." All of that has been immensely helpful.
Carol:
Yeah. That's so awesome. So during the process, you did discover, you did find a new position that you stepped into. I remember when I got the email, you're like, "I got the offer and it's just what I was looking for." I think you said it was like 95% aligned or something like that in terms of where you want to go. I would love for you to share a little bit about that experience of really stepping into from where you were to something where basically you're second in command in this company, like running it, which is amazing.
Tayla:
So the interesting thing is in my previous role, I was leading the company, but I had the responsibility of reporting numbers and all the administrative responsibility of running that agency. What I found is in looking at the work that I was doing is that my focus had shifted to administrative, operational, corporate aspects. So part of the shift was moving from a large organization to a small one that was growing and evolving, so we are a 60 person organization, and it was through the work of discovery of saying, "I actually like to build, I like to create," which enabled me to look at a role where I'm being asked to build a new offering within our agency and to build it from scratch and to build it with no restriction and to tell them what is needed, and then also utilize my skills from counseling clients to then help our clients with strategies and tactics and such that help address disparities.
Tayla:
So it matched skills that I already had, my desire to build, and then also leveraging my experience in health communications and putting all those combined. Here's the interesting thing, my boss, who's the CEO, also recently started and there's a lot of building and growing. So she's able to tap me and say, "Oh, I have this thought," or, "I was thinking about this," or, "I'd like to pull you into that," and I still get to flex that muscle, but I'm not solely on the hook to build, grow and be the CEO of this company. So I found that it matched with my strategic desires, also giving me the flexibility not to be the number one and allow me to grow in a role and to build something from scratch. So it fit on a number of different levels. I will tell you I would've never even applied for the job before the Career Rebel Academy. I would've assumed that it was for someone else and not for me.
Carol:
Wow. Yeah, because I remember there were aspects of the job that you were like, "I don't have this." Right? So this doesn't look like what my resume looks like, but the shift in you saying, "Yeah, but this looks like what I want to be able to do," and being able to translate that in a way that made ... not only did you have that offer, but you add another offer into doing something that your resume didn't look like, but that you were able to step into saying, "This is who I am and this is what I could do." That was so powerful for me.
Tayla:
Here's the thing, as you look at your advice of looking at the resume through the lens of where you want to go, not where you've been, I started looking at where I wanted to go and realized how much of my experience was not captured in my resume because I was still ... previously, I was going after the same role over and over again and once I started to dig into my experience and highlight what I'd done and how it connects to where I want to go, I did have the experience that I needed to do the job. Then also the fact that the job is one and the company is one that said, "Hey, you determine what the offering looks like. You bring in what you need," and clearly I have the experience of building and growing and leading. It was more about the intangibles that were necessary to build a solid offering versus the minutia of the responsibilities that I needed to gain over time.
Carol:
Love it. Love it. So listen, if there's someone out there who are where you were, maybe they're pregnant, I don't know, if they're considering joining this program, what would be some words of advice that you would give to them?
Tayla:
I would say that the energy, the effort and the time that you put into yourself will always yield a positive outcome as it relates to your career and your life. So I think the learning aspect is invaluable. I would also say that allow yourself the ability to take back control of your career, because you deserve it.
Carol:
Wow. I love that. Yes, take control of your career because you deserve it. 100%. So tell me, Tayla, what does it mean to be a career rebel?
Tayla:
I think it's to be daringly self-centered with the purpose of putting your career in the context of your life.
Carol:
Love it. Succinct, to the point and powerful. Amazing. I love it. Tayla, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your insights and your experiences. I think it'll be so helpful for people just to hear it. It has been such an honor to be in your space and partnering with you on this journey, but thank you so much for being here.
Tayla:
Thank you for having me. Thank you for coaching me. I'm an actual career rebel so I'm all in there and I have valued this ongoing journey.
Carol:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Well, there you have it. Here's another episode of the podcast. Hopefully for anyone who's sitting on the fence, thinking about wanting to make a shift or transition in their career and have been wondering if this is the right program for them, that you heard some great nuggets and insights from Tayla today that hopefully will help you make the right decision for yourself and your career. Listen, stay tuned for some more amazing interviews coming your way and in the interim, have an amazingly rebellious week. I will see you soon.
