Carol:
Hey, rebels. Welcome back to another episode of The Midlife Career Rebel Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Carol Parker Walsh and we're having another amazing conversation with a fellow podcaster, an entrepreneur and just all around badass, who's about to drop some great information about our topic for today. So I want to introduce to you Kathy Guzman Galloway, who is a girl mom, entrepreneur, strategist, and 20-year veteran of the CPG marketing world. She's the CEO at KGalloway Consulting, where she helps small businesses to Fortune 500 organizations drive growth with strategy and innovation. She herself has worked in large corporations. She worked for PepsiCo's Frito-Lay before jumping into her own entrepreneurial venture.
Carol:
And today what we're going to talk about is really how to decide if entrepreneurialship is right for you. If you want to come out of that corporate world yourself and step into your own business and creating your own economy, if you will, by being an entrepreneur or consultant. And so that's what we're going to get into today. And so with that, Kathy, thank you so much for being here today.
Kathy:
I am thrilled to be here. And I really appreciate you asking me back. I love that I get an opportunity to talk about being a rebel. That's very much in line with my brand, so I appreciate it. I'm excited to get into it.
Carol:
I love it. I love it. Well, I would love to just open up to talk about your own journey. So you worked in corporate. Probably followed that ladder, that way that we've all been taught. Get that education. Get that job. Get in that space. Climb that ladder. But decided to pivot and step into doing your own business. And I would love to hear your journey through that process.
Kathy:
Absolutely. And it was some journey. It still is. I think we're always on a journey. Our journey doesn't end until the journey ends. And so I embrace that and I love to see what's coming ahead. But in the first couple of phases of my journey, I started, as you said in the intro of my career, as a marketer at PepsiCo in their Frito-Lay Division. And it was a tough six or so years. It's a high-performing, high-demanding organization, PepsiCo, as per their results, accordingly. And it just didn't fit me. I can say this now, in retrospect. I thought I was not the right thing for PepsiCo. But I know now that PepsiCo was not the right thing for me. And I struggled a lot in that environment, while I was a high performer and highly ambitious, the culture of winning at all costs, and often at the expense of others, just didn't work for me.
Kathy:
I didn't know how to navigate the politics of those relationships to help myself succeed on their terms. And again, I can say that very eloquently now, because it's been, I don't know, 10+ years since I left. I certainly could not have articulated at the time. It felt, at the time, like I was just less than. I didn't know how to do this. I don't know how to show up into a white man's office and say, "Please sponsor me. Please look at the work that I'm doing and push for me and help me succeed in this organization." And particularly in an organization where diversity numbers were very low. And so I struggled in that time. Once I was there, my husband and I decided to open a mom-and-pop store. We purchased a mail center, like a UPS store, but it was like a mom-and-pop branded. And that felt like my first way into entrepreneurship.
Kathy:
We thought, "Okay, this is ours. We can make the thing look the way we want it to look and have all the flexibility in the world." And luckily, I got pregnant with my second daughter about a year into it. At the time, it didn't feel lucky. But what I didn't know is that about six months into my pregnancy, the world was going to collapse and we were going to have this ridiculous economic situation. But because I was pregnant, I was forced to sell the business. And I just sold it just before the markets crashed and everything went downhill. And so the universe pointed me into the right direction. I went back into the corporate world. And I found myself at a few other organizations and laid off twice throughout that time. And once, I quit a job at an organization where the founder was verbally abusive to his staff.
Kathy:
And those experiences all collectively pushed me to say, "That's enough. I'm done. I'm done with other people dictating what success looks like for me. I'm done people owning my expertise. I'm done with people telling me when I can or can't spend time with my kids, or when I can do the dishes, or do a load of laundry, or go on vacation for a month, which we did, by the way. Just this past month we spent in Costa Rica for a month. I was done with all of that. And that's what really drove me to say, "Let me think about being an independent consultant. And I spent maybe a month and a half after my second layoff, I spent about a month and a half just thinking and thinking, "Do I do this? Do I do this?" There's a lot of imposter syndrome, and fear, and nervousness. And I jumped right in, reached out to my network and said, "Hey, if there is any work, maybe, possibly I'm here. I could help."
Kathy:
Two days later, I had my first and still longest running client, which is Keurig Dr. Pepper. And I never looked back. And now it's been nine and a half years I've been consulting and best decision that I ever didn't really make, that I sort of fell into. And I like to say that I'll never look back. I never want to say never, but I don't see myself looking back. And I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about this in a minute, but I'll tee it up by saying that I've learned so much about myself and what is the right fit for me and what makes me successful in a business environment that didn't fit in the corporate world. And I didn't know that I didn't fit, because I didn't know what the alternative was. And so now I'm thankful for that.
Kathy:
And as you know, I have my own podcast, where we talk about being in a fork in the road. And I try to highlight stories of other women who have gone through that for that same reason, that we can't see what's on the other side until we experience it, or hopefully, hear it from others like myself. And that's what I'm trying to do, is get people to see that there is something else, even if it feels scary, that might just be a better fit for you. So that's my story. And this is where I am now.
Carol:
Oh, I love that. Yes. And I had the pleasure of being a guest on your podcast, which was so amazing. We had such a wonderful conversation. And I'll definitely put a link to that podcast episode, so you can listen to that conversation as well. But you said so many great things, and which brought up some questions that I know some people may have. And one, I'm wondering, I'm curious if your previous venture into entrepreneurialism helped you around for the second time when you decided to go into it. So really, if you hadn't done that first venture with your husband and kind of bought this postal mom-and-pop shop, do you think you still would have felt empowered or that it was even possible to step into entrepreneurialship later?
Kathy:
Actually, I don't think it helped at all, funny enough. And if anything, I think it may have frightened us a little more, which is a shame. And I hope that that's not the experience for others. But I think it was just a unique combination of things in that it was an industry neither one of us knew anything about. My husband is in finance and in financial reporting. I'm a marketer. I do consumer package goods. And here we are with a mail center. I don't know anything about the mail system. I didn't know anything about that. And then the second piece of it is that I had a young daughter. She was one, one and a half. And then I got pregnant. So I had that stress happening. And then you added this sort of financial crisis on top of it. So I think the series of events really did not help in any way.
Kathy:
However, I think what I can appreciate from the experience is that even though it was difficult and painful, and I don't know that in the end it really added a lot of positive to our lives, I still decided to do something else. And I still decided to go into something entrepreneurial. And I think the reason for that is that failures always teach us something. And in that case, I do think in many ways there's some failures in there. I don't know necessarily that the whole thing was a failure, because there were circumstances beyond my control. But the experience did teach me about taking risk and being willing to go out of my comfort zone.
Kathy:
Again, I don't know that in the moment I would've seen it or could articulate it, but having gone through all of what I've gone through now, I know that that laid a foundation. But I say all of that and want to say that I would do it all over again if I would be able to do it. I would do it anyway, because every experience has some value to add, even if it's to scare you more so that you're better prepared. Every experience had value. So, yeah.
Carol:
I love that. Actually, I love that that was the answer. And the reason why I love that is because I think sometimes people will have this misconception that, well she was an entrepreneur before, so of course, she felt more comfortable to do it again. And for you to say, "Oh, hell no! That was a bad time." And if anything, for somebody else, it may have scared you off. But like you said, it taught you some things. And I love what you said about it helped to, in a lot of ways, redefine failure. At least that's what I'm taking from it, to redefine it as not a bad thing, but a learning opportunity.
Carol:
So that when you want to take that jump or leap later, that you can look at the experience and say, "Well, if I survived that, or what did I learn from that, or what did I glean from that, or how did I grow from that," even though it may be looked upon as a failure to other people, that it served as a teaching opportunity for what you can potentially do in the future. So love that that was your answer. Actually, I think that was absolutely amazing.
Carol:
The other thing you said that I really loved is that you can't often see the possibility of what could be until you actually are in it and experience it, which I think is so true. And I think so often we want to control the outcome and want to know the outcome. So we don't put ourselves in positions to just kind of go for it and hope for the best in terms of the outcome. I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that, because I think that is so powerful, that the fact that you can't always see what's going to happen until you're in it. So how did you decide to get beyond that and say, "Well, I don't know what's going to happen, but you know what? I'm going to put myself out there, go for it"?
Kathy:
This is such a hard one. And I'll be really frank that I think I only really learned and absorbed this in the last three years. And what I mean by it is this willingness and ability to let things happen, to listen to the whispers, to watch for the clues, to allow myself to explore possibilities that seem interesting without feeling like I have to have all the answers right at the beginning. It took me a long time to get to that place. I'll tell you why it didn't work. And then how I wish I had thought of it differently. I think it didn't work in the past, because, especially early on in a new business or in a new career, you are worried about proving yourself. You are worried about making sure that I do this shit. I got this. I know what I'm doing. I want everybody else to see that I know what I'm doing. I want to tell myself I know what I'm doing. And exploring and being open to potential is not knowing` your shit. It's knowing the opposite.
Kathy:
It's saying, "I don't know. I don't know what this is. I'm not sure what this is about. I got to go talk to some people. I got to learn about it." And that's uncomfortable. And it worked for me, because I got to finally a place that I felt confident enough in what I was doing, and how big my business has got, and how successful I am based on my own definition and including others and the perception of others of me that I could give myself that freedom. And that's a shame, because if I had allowed myself to do that in year one, who knows where I would be? Who knows where I could have found myself in? And the problem that is inherent in that is the ego.
Kathy:
And I talk a lot about this when I'm coaching people who want to become consultants or want to become entrepreneurs in any way, and you are leaving a high performing organization like a PepsiCo, and there's hundreds of them across the country, in every industry, you are leaving a culture in which your high performance is constantly being reinforced or commented on or evaluated. Even if nobody's telling you're high performing, the concept and the idea of high performance is always being talked about and reinforced. You leave that environment and now there's nobody there to say to you, "Hey, it's the annual review. Let me tell you how amazing you are, all the amazing [inaudible 00:15:05]."
Kathy:
"Hey, by the way, we have this special project. We're reporting to the whatever, CEO of such and such. Let me assign you there, because you're so amazing. Oh, let me introduce you to this new team. Hey, guys, here, meet Kathy. She's incredible. She's an amazing part of our..." There's nobody doing this rah-rah. It's just you. And so as an independent person, and especially if you don't have a team, if you're a solo entrepreneur, there's no rah-rah. There's nobody telling you how incredible you are. Even when you're working with clients, they may be super satisfied with your work, but they're not sitting there writing you a review, unless you ask for it, which sometimes can be hard to get, even if they do love you. And so this feeling of support and the issue with your ego as an independent entrepreneur is really hard to manage when you come out of that universe.
Kathy:
And that, I think, is what really stopped me early on from saying, "Be open." Today, it's happening right now, I'm in the middle of exploring something related to startups. I do quite a bit of work with startups, CPG companies. And I'm trying to figure out where I'm going with that. And just earlier this week, I spoke with somebody who told me about venture studios. I don't know anything about venture studios. I'm Googling. I'm setting up appointments with people, like, "Hey, tell me about this venture studio. What is it? How does it work? How do I get one started? Is that something I should do?" I would never have done that, because I don't want people to think I don't know what a venture studio is. How do I not know about this? I'm an idiot. What am I doing?
Kathy:
It continuously happening to me now, that always learning about something new. Is a venture studio for me? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. It doesn't matter. The point is that I'm open and willing to explore that. And it just took me time. And I hope people learn from that that just forget the ego. Forget wanting to get the accolade and give yourself that flexibility and that willingness to go and ask, and explore, and just see where the world takes you.
Carol:
Oh, that is so much brilliance, because not only do you have to let go of the ego, but you have to let go of this idea that you think you have to know everything and also feel very confident in what you do know and what you bring to the table. I think one of the most beautiful things the way you shared it and what you talked about is that in the corporate space, we're so used to being externally validated. And what you're talking about is finding that internal validation for yourself. And I think whether you stay in the corporate space or decide to leave and become an entrepreneur, that, I think, is an important skill to develop anyway, that you don't have to wait for the performance evaluation or the kudos to know that you're brilliant. And too often, I think, when we rely on that, when that's not there, then we question our brilliance and our value and things of that nature.
Carol:
So one, finding some ways to really validate that for yourself, that's one of the big things we work on in my coaching program is owning that brilliance, regardless of what anybody else says, the degrees you have, or all that kind of stuff. But the other thing I love that you said, which is so amazing, is being open to new things. I don't know what that is. And I don't have to act like I know what it is. Let me explore it so I can learn more and grow in my knowledge and what I could offer and what I could do and being okay with that. So I think those are such brilliant points, that you brought up, so that you're not just relying on what was, but you're really relying heavily on what you already know you bring to the table and being open to so much more.
Carol:
The other thing before we get into really deciding about entrepreneurialism, you talked about fit. And I did a TEDx Talk about fit and belonging, about how we too often struggle to disconnect ourselves from our worth and our value trying to fit into something as opposed to owning it all and finding places where we can actually show up powerfully, authentically. And you talked a little bit about that. And I just wanted to talk a little bit more about this thing about how you knew when you were in that world that it just wasn't a fit that. And you were constantly like, "Well, let me try it here. Let me try it here." And it just wasn't a fit. And really listening to that. And not suppressing that, thinking, "Well, it must be me," as opposed to, "No, these places just aren't built for me."
Carol:
How did you kind of navigate and negotiate this whole thing about fit, particularly, I'm sure, because a lot of people were telling you, "Girl, you were at PepsiCo with Frito-Lay? What you doing? You need to stay! That's so awesome."
Kathy:
Right?
Carol:
Right!
Kathy:
Yeah. Yes, yes. Not only were other people saying... There's a lot of cachet that comes with these big company names. Not just PepsiCo, but all of them. You work in any of these big companies, they're like, "Wow, you work at Apple? Wow, you work at General Motors? Wow, you work at whatever?" And people feel like there's a lot to that, which there is. Don't get me wrong. PepsiCo on my resume has brought me so many open doors. So there is a lot of value in that. But then we also attribute the strength of that organization to the right way of doing things, the only way of doing things. It's PepsiCo. Clearly, they know what they're doing. This universe is set up to succeed. It has continued to succeed for decades and decades. Clearly, I'm the one who's off.
Kathy:
And I don't know that I figured it out until I was on the outside, until I got to where I am now. Being in that universe, what I was navigating was, it always comes back to the ego, as it does for many things, is I am ambitious. I am very ambitious. I come from a line of Dominicans. My family's from Dominican Republic. Dominicans who were entrepreneurial, who were rebels in their own way. My grandfather was born in 1904. And he was a doctor in his village. And he was handing out prescriptions to people against the direct orders of the dictator at the time. He almost went to jail for it. So he's committed to his venture. And a lot of that trickled down to the rest of us. I want to succeed. I want to do the right thing. I want others to see that success in me. And so if this is the universe that I'm operating in, I got to figure out how to make it work. And again, I just thought I didn't know how to do it.
Kathy:
So what I hear a lot from other people, that I said to myself is, "I just don't know how to network correctly. I don't know how to navigate the politics in this building." And what I really was saying is, "These politics don't know how to navigate with me, because I don't want to do politics. These politics don't fit my universe." I didn't realize that until I left it, because all organizations have politics, period. Some operate a little differently. Some operate better in terms of fitting into my style than others. But what I learned about that wasn't until I left. And in the work I do now, I'm in a service position. My personality and my values are more service-oriented than they are... I don't know what the alternative of that is. I don't want to say success-oriented, but maybe results-oriented. I'm much more about service and how I can serve people.
Kathy:
And so in this role, in this capacity, I could see that, oh, wait a minute. If I'm here to help you navigate your politics and give you success so you can be political in the way you want to do it, okay, that I can work with. I see it. I see how this is different now. I see how I can fit into that. I see how I can understand now from my clients that they do have politics, that they are playing those political roles, and that I support them in that. And it doesn't bother me anymore, because I'm playing a different role in the politics than I was before. But I didn't catch that from the inside. And so I think this comes back to our last point of conversation, is being open to listen and understand how else it works and how else it could work might help you give you a different perspective.
Kathy:
I might have treated it differently being in the building then, if I knew then what I know now. If I had put a service hat on, instead of I need to win at all costs. I got to beat out these people. I got to get myself that next promotion. If I was thinking through the lens of service, I might have performed differently. And it might have been a better experience for me. And maybe not. Maybe they wouldn't have wanted my service-based approach. I don't know that. But I didn't have the capacity at the time to see that there was that different path. So my navigating was poorly done. Now, granted, I was there for six years and I did get promoted once, twice while I was there, but it was painful. It was painful. And I made it through. And I am glad now that I have such a different perspective. And it really has changed the way I do business. And it just makes me so much happier in the work that I do.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. So you just needed a coach like me at the time. But anyway, I guess-
Kathy:
Exactly.
Carol:
But that's exactly, I mean, what you said, I love that you said that. I'm paraphrasing here, but if you were operating through the lens of your values, if you were operating through the lens of who you are authentically, if you were operating through the lens of what made sense for you and honored your zone of genius and honored the way you like to work and be in the world, that you would've maybe navigated the space a little differently. Or maybe even been more comfortable knowing that this isn't the right space. Let me go find a space that makes sense. And I think that is so key, is that we have to know our values. We have to know who we are.
Carol:
We have to know what's important for us in all spaces so that we don't succumb to this idea of trying to fit into something and become something or navigate through something that's not really either worth it, or where we should even be. And then thinking something's wrong with us, because it's not working, as opposed to no, this just isn't my space. So I love that. And I love that phrase of just operating through the lens of values and yourself. I love that verbiage. And I just wanted to really highlight that. I think that is so amazing. And so it makes total sense.
Kathy:
I love that you used the word authenticity. I think that's a great way to synthesize all of that, which is this in particular, as a woman of color, as a Latina, as an Afro Latina, somebody who looks like I look in that building is really hard to do. It's really hard to show up there and say, "I don't want to do it this way. I don't want to do it my way." And it would've never really entered into my mindset to do that without having someone to really, even if, I think even if someone pushed me to do it, I would've had to kind of had an experience to get me into that space. And the idea and the word of authenticity is just so powerful. Showing up as your full self, every single day, regardless of what other people are bringing to the table is really at the core of what we're talking about.
Carol:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's switch over into this idea of how to decide. How do you know when it's time for you to make that entrepreneurial leap? To maybe step into that world to step into consulting? Because I know, particularly women at midlife, I mean, we have so much experience that we probably can leverage into something and to do some consulting or take our talents and, I always say, our little toolbox and go play in some other sandbox, if we want to. So how do we know? What are the steps or the ways that you have figured out how to articulate for, or somebody can for themselves, if they want to step into entrepreneurialship or step into consulting?
Kathy:
I love talking about this. Over the years, I've had so many people, so many women, I'm going to be specific, so many women, mid-career, typically moms, come to me and they want to set up lunches, or they want to set up happy hours, or they just want to like get on the phone and chat. Tell me about what you're doing. How did you get into it? Why did you do this? Is this something you think I could do? That's what actually led me to create the podcast. And now I'm working on a course, which is, if you are ready to make that move, here are the steps you need to take to get there. In all of that, I always start by talking about how amazing it is.
Kathy:
"It's fantastic. It's the best thing I've ever done. My schedule is mine. I take the entire holiday. I take three weeks off on Christmas. I reduce my hours in the summer. I spend a month in Costa Rica or Dominican Republic. I do laundry in the middle of the day, et cetera, et cetera. So many wonderful reasons to do this. Not to mention that in the work itself, I pick and choose what I want to work on. I have a bunch of loyal clients," et cetera.
Kathy:
And then I say, "However, this is hard. This is not easy. This is not like, 'Oh, I don't like my job. Let me do this.' Poof! Everything's great. Everything's perfect. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. I never have stress again." Absolutely not! It's just different stress. This is not for everyone. There are some people who, many of us, half of us, if not more, who belong in the corporate world. But then there's a group of us for whom we get to a place in our career where we just have a much clearer, it's not a clearer vision. It's more a calling to want to do something our own way, that we have a vision for what we want to bring to the table, or the kind of people we want to work with, or the kinds of values that we want to showcase. That in particular, was important to me.
Kathy:
I mentioned at the top of the interview that I left a job where the owner of the company was verbally abusive to some of the employees. In the moment, I allowed it to happen in front of me. Leaving that and starting my consulting I remember reflecting on what are things that are important to me that I will never allow to happen again or that I want to make sure happen? And that was one of them. What are my personal ethics that I need to make sure are present in the work that I do? And one of those was treating people with respect, which seems like something you shouldn't have to verbally state, but here we are. We have to state it. And so you get to this place where there are any number of these things.
Kathy:
The kind of projects I'm working on, the people I'm working with, the company I'm working with, maybe I'm working for Philip Morris and I'm thinking, "I just don't want to do this work anymore. I want flexibility, because of my kids. Because I want to do something else, maybe I don't have kids. I want to be able to volunteer or spend time with my aging parents." Any number of little whispers that are coming at you saying, "This just isn't enough anymore. This isn't right." Sometimes we're in a place where we're thinking the company just doesn't value me. They're not giving me what I need. That also can be part of it. But a lot of that can be solved.
Kathy:
If you want to stay at a corporation, there are ways to fix that. So that alone isn't a reason to jump. There really has to be more of a sort of philosophical and holistic desire for you personally to do this. Because again, it's not easy. It is hard. It's challenging. I talk about the ego again, because the ego's going to show up. There's nobody there to rah-rah you. But you also have to go out and you have to find work. And you have to manage books. And you have to hire people. And it's a struggle every single day in a different way than your work is today. So, I guess, my starting advice or is this what I want to do is, listen to what's happening in your life.
Kathy:
Is it asking you to challenge the way you work today and how your career is progressing? And if yes, then there's a whole evaluation process if this is the right thing for me. But that's the starting point. It may be enough to change jobs. Do you really want to be a consultant or an entrepreneur or start a business? There's a lot to consider about the way that you want to work and want to live before you make that jump. Does that answer your question?
Carol:
Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's so important, because I think people do look at entrepreneurialism and think, "Oh, it's just a matter of me hanging out my shingle and the people will run as soon as I say that I'm available for work." And that life will be easy and not realizing that, I remember when I decided to pivot and leave my position as an Associate Dean to start my business, it was, I mean, I've worked harder in my business than I had to work when I was actually working in a corporate space, or an academic space in my case. And you forget about the things that there's not the supply room down the hall that you could just go pick up paper for your printer, or pins and paper, or whatever it is that you want to do, that there's not colleagues down the hall that you can talk to and brainstorm with or things of that nature.
Carol:
The break room is your kitchen, if you're working from home. And so you have to stock that. It's not just there with whatever you [inaudible 00:32:48]. There's no sick leave. There's no vacation except for what you create on your own. And so there is a lot of trappings of that work life that is gone when you become an entrepreneur. Granted, you could create those things in a way that make the best sense for you. Instead of two weeks vacation, I get a month and a half. You can do that. I mean, you do have the flexibility to be able to do that. But you have to still think about, is this something that you want to do? Would you rather have an entrepreneurial mindset in a corporate space or be in a space that allows you for that kind of entrepreneurial innovation, creative independence? Or do you want to do that for your own?
Carol:
So I love that you shared that the first thing you have to decide is if it's right for you. I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier, is understanding that lens that you're going, what are your values? What's important to you? What matters to you? What's your risk tolerance? All of those things of understanding that about yourself is key in understanding how to make that best decision. So let's say, okay-
Kathy:
But actually, I'll add to that quickly and just say that when I was designing the course for how to start your consultancy, that actually is the very first piece of the course. Although the course is very much about all the things, you got to get your ducks in a row, you got to get a bank account. How do I think about creating a tax identification number? How do I hire people? These sort of really tactical things, I didn't even start with any of that until we start at the beginning with what are your intentions? Let's be really clear what it is you're hoping to gain through this experience before you even get too far along, because I don't want you to get to the end and say, "Oh, you know what? I really wanted X, Y, Z. I really wanted a team to cheer me on." And, hey, there is no team! It's just you. And so setting those intentions up front is really important. And of course, really just gives you an exercise with which to do it.
Kathy:
But for some people, and myself included 10 years ago, I think having resources like yourself to be able to talk through it is really valuable, because sometimes it's hard to know what you want when you're sitting in isolation. I've had these conversations with people where they're like, "Well, I just don't like this job, because of X, Y, Z." And the more that you have someone to help facilitate your thinking through that, the more you realize, "Actually, it's not really the job. It's this one piece of it. Or it's this one person." And so having the opportunity to, if you feel stuck in that, to really talk through it with someone like yourself can be a game changer in getting through that part of the process. That's critical. You cannot skip that step.
Carol:
No, love that addition. Love that addition. So if you make the move into entrepreneurialism, it's not easy. So what do you do or what do you say for those who make the leap, done all that work, clear that's where they want to go, but of course, as you mentioned, it's hard. So when your family and friends are saying, "What are you doing? Go back to that job." Or when you start thinking in yourself, "Maybe I made a mistake. It is harder than I thought it would be." And I think every entrepreneur goes through that. And then you kind of push through it, because you realize, it is hard, but you can get to the other side. What type of things do you suggest people do to kind of handle that or to deal with those type of challenges when they come up in that process?
Kathy:
My secret sauce has been my very small network of other consultants. And this community that I've built, and it's small, that's purposely, right now, there are two other people that I religiously rely on, they act as your coworkers. And that is so important, because when you are sitting alone in a room, looking at a screen, whether you're writing a proposal or a presentation, or you're working on your speech, or writing your book, whatever it is you're doing and you're by yourself in that room, you know nothing. You're sitting here like, "I don't know how to write. I don't even know what grammar is. Who am I?" The whole world is collapsing around you. You feel like the greatest idiot in the world.
Kathy:
And having someone who you call and say, "Oh, my God, Carol, I'm writing this thing. I feel like an idiot. I'm writing this and that." And then you say to me, "Oh man, that just happened to me yesterday. I was writing blah, blah, blah. And I felt like an idiot." We don't really solve anything. We just express these emotions to each other. Hang up. Great. I'm ready to write this now. Now I know that I'm not crazy. I've talked through with you. That sanity check has been literally everything. Now, that's not the only thing. It's everything, but not the only thing.
Kathy:
There is a lot of work within my family. My kids are... I should say I talk to my kids and to my husband a lot about the work that I do. Because it is very isolating, the work that I do now, I try to engage them. And I'm working on this project or that. I am engaged with organizations that are relevant to me, local and national organizations where I get to build relationships that way. And so a lot of that helps me to level set, because the more that you can actually talk to people about the work they're doing, the more you realize that these people are not all Oprahs. It's not like all of them are incredible. And you're the only one, not.
Kathy:
When you start having a conversation like, "Oh Carol, what's going on with you?" "Oh, I'm struggling with this." You're like, "Oh, okay. So it's not just me." I see Carol all over the internet. And she's in all these events. She's doing amazing. I'm not doing any of that. But then I talk to you, and you're like, "Oh, I struggled so much to get this interview or to do this." That makes me just bring everything down to reality. And really helps me to understand that what we see online and what we see happening with clients is not always what is the real deal. But again, I come back to that small, tight network, that little community that is there to act as your sounding board to really help you get through the hardest of days. That is my absolute secret sauce.
Carol:
Love that. Community is so powerful. And you can't do it in isolation. And I know we live in a society that seems to value individualism and competition. And this idea that you have to go it alone to show that you're strong, or tough, or all that kind of bullshit, which that's what it is, in my opinion. And it really is about community. It's about having people that you can talk to, lean on, know that you're not alone, give you some advice or tips to know that is going to be a struggle, but I struggled too, let me tell you how I got through it. Community is so powerful.
Carol:
I know there was a study that I think I read before that, particularly with women, that women who worked together in community going after similar goals were something like 85% more successful in achieving those goals than those who were going it alone, because of community. And because of having someone who kind of got you, got the experience and could support you is so powerful. So I love that you shared that. Love it. Total secret sauce. Absolutely.
Kathy:
It is.
Carol:
So listen, Kathy, what does being a career rebel mean for you? I mean, clearly that runs through your blood. Speaking of your grandfather! But what does being, or even the term career rebel mean to you?
Kathy:
I do like to think of myself as a rebel in many ways in that I want to challenge the status quo wherever I can. Not only because I look differently than most people in a room that I'm in, but also because I want to think different. Part of my job as a consultant and as a facilitator is to help people find clarity in the work that they're doing so that they can move forward. It's really part of my purpose and my mission. And I think clarity is rebellious in and of itself, because what I find is that everywhere we turn, there are more tools, and processes, and frameworks, and ways to approach things that it actually clutters thinking that can often just be clearer. And that's a lot of what I do, is I come in and say, "Let's just simplify. Let's just simplify."
Kathy:
And to me, that is rebellious in the world, particularly of consulting, where consultants make their money on frameworks and all this fancy stuff that they bring to the table. Don't get me wrong. I have a few frameworks I use, but in the benefit of clarity. But even beyond that, I like to think myself as rebellious. I like to encourage myself to be rebellious through the lens of service that we talked about earlier. I want to show up for others in every way that I can. And do it in a way that in and of itself is rebellious. It's not often you see people handing clients to competitors or making introductions that maybe you'd keep for yourself, giving airspace to people that maybe you normally wouldn't.
Kathy:
How can I continuously challenge the status quo? How can I find ways to help others that isn't the norm? A lot of what I'm exploring today, I talked about a venture studio that I literally just thought of this week. So it's at level zero. But that in and of itself is rebellious for the industry that I'm in. And so I'm just trying to think about ways that I can show up for others in ways that isn't happening now for the success of all of us, particularly when it comes to people of color, especially women, Black and Brown women. And so that's why I think of myself rebellious.
Carol:
I love that. I love that. So tell me about the free course that you are putting together and how can people get their hands on that?
Kathy:
So we are still in the middle of developing it. It'll be out shortly. And it's called the Consultant Launch Kit. It's specifically designed for you, if and when you've decided to become a consultant to think about all the steps you need to actually move into that work. This is less about designing your business and more about literally the steps. As I said before, I need a bank account. I need an email address. How do I hire people? How do I set up goals for my organization? How do I find clients? And how do I deliver with the greatest service? How do I deal with my ego? All of these things that really lay the foundation for giving you a successful business. And so we're still working on it. But when it's ready, they'll be able to find it on my website. It will be www.theclaritywizard.com. And we hope to have as many of you as possible and to help you succeed as consultants.
Carol:
I love that. Oh, what a cool name, too. And I will definitely make sure there is a link to that in the show notes so that you can access that and get your hands on it when that is ready. Kathy, what a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for all of the nuggets and the wisdom that you shared. I just love to hear about your experience and love what you're offering and doing, how you're giving back in the world, which is so amazing.
Kathy:
Thank you. I'm glad I could pay it back, because you did an amazing job for me as well. So I appreciate you asking me. Thank you so much.
Carol:
Thank you. All right, rebels. Well, there you have it. Another episode that I know you're going to want to bookmark and listen to again and again. Join us next time when we will have another amazing conversation with a woman who is changing the game and making a difference in the lives of others. And until then, have an amazingly rebellious week. And I'll see you soon.
