Carol:
Hey, hey, hey, rebels. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I am really fired up today because we have an extra special guest in the house who is going to not only talk about her work in the employment space, but also her life, her experience, and the contributions that she makes and the work that she does to help so many other women who are along the path in their lives and careers.
So today we have Maricella Herrera. She is the CEO of Elevate Network, the largest community for women plus at work focused on creating a culture of equity and inclusion in business. And she oversees the overall business operations growth and strategy and works closely with the chapter leaders and champions to really further the impact. Now, she has been a strategic executive for over 15 years with experience in building and scaling teams. She has mobilized a women's summit. She is a host of a podcast, particularly the one for Elevate Network. And prior to that she's held several positions in real estate banking in Mexico, actually. She's worked in and out of the country. So this is a global thought leader and champion. And so we're going to hear a firsthand experience of not only how she came into this world of work, but also how she navigates it and helps so many other people do the same.
And with that, Maricella, thank you for being here.
Maricella:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Carol:
I so appreciate it. So let's start with the most obvious. Tell me a little bit about Elevate and Elevate Network, and what it's about, and why you're a part of it and running it, and what it does and the impact it makes for so many other women in the world?
Maricella:
Sure. So Elevate Network, like you said, is the largest community of women plus at work. And I'm going to start with talking about the term women plus and why we use it. Elevate started 20 plus years ago, and at that point it was actually called 85 Broads. It came out of women who worked at Goldman Sachs, and Goldman Sachs old address back in the 90s was 85 Broad Street in New York. So it was a little play in the name. It started basically let's keep women who worked there together and it's kept expanding. In the last few years, what we've been looking at and how the world has been changing is if we want to make a world where there is gender equity, it can't be just women. So for us, women plus, that term relates to women, non-binary individuals, anyone who feels underrepresented because of their gender identity.
And it also includes men who believe in the importance of gender equity, because that's the only way we're going to do it is if we all work together. So that's why we've transitioned into this term Women Plus that is more all encompassing and more inclusive. What we do-
Carol:
Love it.
Maricella:
Thank you. We create spaces where you can come and be honest about work. So it started, like I said, back in the day as a way of can we get more women together to get more women in positions of power and leadership? How do we support each other? The good old boys network exists, it has always existed. Can we create this good old girls network? And what we've realized as the passing of time is as we come together, there is a need for us to be able to not just share opportunities with each other, but also can we feel seen? Do you feel like you belong?
There is a very big, I would call it an epidemic honestly, of loneliness, particularly at work. And we see a lot of people, particularly women and minorities leaving their jobs because they don't feel like they can be themselves, because they don't feel like they belong, because the policies within that workplace aren't meant for them. And so with Elevate, we have almost this place where you can come in and recharge, where you can hear others that have been in your shoes that can give you advice on how to deal with how to be more visible at work? Or how do you deal with the microaggressions? How do you actually make this manager support you? Or how do you even yourself be a better manager to the people around you? And so when you can come together and have these very open, very candid discussions, and then take what you learn, build up that confidence and bring that back into your place of work, and instead of saying, hey, I'm tapping out, I'm going to go try and build a business.
And we've heard that a lot. Actually, someone told me today that about 30% of the people who are leaving or being laid off are thinking of starting their own business because they're tapped out. The world of work isn't working for us. And this is usually women and minorities. So we're not going to make a change in the business culture if we don't start by having this confidence, this feeling of not being alone. If you can come back into the world of work and be, hey, no, I'm not going to take this. I'm not necessarily going to go and start my own thing, but I can make change with the power that I have, that sometimes we don't realize that we have that power. So Elevate is a place where you can facilitate that, where you can build that up so that then together, and that's the whole beauty of having a network, with great power comes great responsibility, and with collective voices you can make change. Can we influence then policies within workplaces? Can we influence the culture of business as we come together?
Carol:
That is so powerful. I mean, you said so much here that I just want to make sure it gets really picked up. I mean, first of all, I love that you opened it up with why you use women plus as a terminology, because I agree it is for so many years when we've talked about diversity and inclusion or any of that type of work, it's always been put on the backs of those who are in the minority or those who are in the oppressive group to figure it out, fix it and deal with it. But it's not just a problem of underrepresented women, or minority women, or the people who are in that minority or underrepresented category. It is all of our concern and issue. And there's been so many studies and research that shows the impact of organizations that include women in leadership and women of color, or non-binary or others in positions of authority, there's greater innovation, there's greater retention.
I mean, it's crazy that the data reveals the importance of all of us making this a conversation, but how still it feels like it's still left to those in those marginalized populations to be the voice and to speak on behalf. So I love that you said men too, and not just allies, but those who want to be accomplices and those who really want to join hands to make change and make a difference. Absolutely. So I wanted to highlight that too, because I think that is so powerful and so necessary in this work that we have to remember that it's not just the one side, it's all sides that need to be involved in this conversation.
Maricella:
And thank you for saying accomplices, because I don't really like to use the term ally. We use it because I think that's what people understand the most, but it's more than just allyship. You have to stand with the people there and make change together. So it can't just be saying, hey, yeah, sure, I'll support you. It is, do you have their backs when they're not in the room? Are you representing with your social, political, economic capital for these groups that need that?
Carol:
Yeah, no, I love that. And then you talked about too, creating space, which I also think is very powerful as well, because this idea of feeling heard and feeling safe to speak your truth, I think is also incredibly necessary and powerful for so many people who have felt gaslighted, or ignored, or have internalized so much that has happened to the point that they think, well, maybe it's me and it's not, these other external factors that are impacting them. I love that you talked about that Elevate creates a space for people to come and have these conversations for the voice to be heard so they can be empowered and move into spaces. It's something the work that our company does is try to go into organizations and create those spaces so women can have these conversations and feel that energy and vibe so, like you say, they don't leave, but stay in the fight to help and pull up the next generation and the next people move forward. So absolutely love that.
So I want to talk a little bit about how did you end up at Elevate? What was your pathway before you became the CEO of this amazing community?
Maricella:
Yeah. I have an interesting background, I would say. So I've been with Elevate for 10 years, so it's been a while, it's been a minute. But my background had nothing to do with any of this. I'm from El Salvador, so small, little country, grew up in a war zone, so that's for another podcast. But I started my career in Mexico. So I was there, I did my studies there and then started out in real estate banking, like you said at the beginning. And what I was doing was giving financing for low income housing developments in the north of Mexico. It's niche, as of niche, niche. And it was a great experience. I loved it. And as I was thinking what was next for me, I came to New York for business school thinking, I'm going to continue down this path. I'm going to continue going down the finance path. I'm going to go back to banking. This is what I want to do. I want to do it in a broader environment that's not as niche. So maybe I'll look at New York, stay here, do it there.
I realized I did not like anything about the culture of banking in New York City. I did not really enjoy my experience networking and looking for a job. And truth be told, banking didn't like me either. Realistically, we were not a match. But one has those internalized ideas of what success looks like. And for me, that was always the case. I tell this story pretty often. I was doing my last interview for a boutique investment bank in Mexico and it was my last round. After that I was going to go back, I was going to go to Mexico to meet the team in person because all of this was on the phone. And before we hung up, the person on the other end, a dude, of course, asks me one last question, are you planning on getting married in the next two years? And yes, that was I will say probably the question that just pivoted my life, honestly, because now I wasn't and I responded, "No, no, no, no."
Carol:
But you thought the question behind that was, are you getting pregnant anytime soon?
Maricella:
Exactly. Exactly. And of course it bothered me. At this point, I had built a relationship with Janet Hansen, who was the founder of back then 85 Broads, now Elevate. She was an alumni of the school I was at of Columbia. And we had met and I had been helping her on the side while I was in school building a business plan for 85 Broads just because I thought it was a cool thing to do, and why not? So she had become a mentor for me. And after my call I immediately he was like, "Look, Janet, this thing happened." And she was so appalled by it, which made me be like, I knew there was something wrong with it, but I was so conditioned to this world, to this type of working way that I was like, I hadn't even thought it was that big of a deal. That, I think was a big eyeopener for me.
And thankfully, like I said, I had Janet on my corner who pointed it out. And after a while, as I kept thinking what I was doing, the more I went into this, the more I thought, you know what? I really want my time, my effort to matter, to be of impact in some way. So I had started to explore more of the social enterprise realm and what that could look like. And like I said, even when I was in banking, I was doing low income housing development. So there was something in it that I knew I needed to do more. And Janet needed someone to come help her structure the business as she had a very, very small team. And so she was like, "Try it out. Come here and try it out for a year or two, see what you feel." And yeah, the rest is history. I did, I started off there. When I started off, we were three people in a basement in Greenwich, Connecticut.
Carol:
Wow.
Maricella:
Yeah, it was interesting. Janet had had larger teams in the past and the company had grown and shrank honestly with a lot of the financial crisis, because it was very much tied to the finance industry at that point. And I loved it. I had a chance to build something, and something I love. I'm a huge puzzle person, how do we make this work? And this was a company that was for her, a passion project. It had been born of her wanting to support women. And I don't know, it was an interesting transition for me to be working from being the only woman in the room to being surrounded by women all the time. And yeah, and then she sold the company the next year, which was an interesting transition.
I got the opportunity to work with incredible people, and go from being those three people to then going through a sale and having Sally Krawcheck take over the ownership of the business, which to me also was like, oh my God, one of my heroes and now I get to work with her. So of course I stayed, and see the business grow and build a team with whoever was coming in. Chrissy Wallace came in as CEO. Her and I are now really good friends of course and worked together closely for about eight years. And I had the chance to try out all different hats. So that was why I stuck around for 10 years because I am a very curious person. And Elevate was a place for me to explore that curiosity.
So I got to learn about marketing, learn a business, learn about strategy and figure out where I fit in without necessarily having to compromise and say, this is my bucket, this is where I'm going to be. It was more of almost a little bit of a playground and place where I could do some experiments, learn about management, and people and people ops, which became one of my passions, both that and marketing honestly. And how do you build a company that will be sustainable? And so throughout the years, I got to wear many hats. And last year Chrissy decided to end her tenure at Elevate and I got the chance to take this role. And why not?
Carol:
Yeah. What a story. I mean, there's so much in that story. But I think what is so heartwarming and powerful is that you have the opportunity to, as you said, be curious, to be in a place that gave you the space to learn, grow and develop. And at the base of it all, I think what you said, first of all, being in a place, I often tell people when I finally left my career and started my business was that I told my boss, "We need to break up. It's not you, it's me." And so that comes to mind when you were like, it just wasn't a good match. It was almost like me and baking, we tried, we gave it a good run, but in the end we just weren't meant to be. So it was like we had to break up. So I love that analogy.
But I also love that you talked about being internalized in this way of being and thinking even to the point that what the guy said was like a jerk or crazy, but not realizing at the level of discriminatory practice really as a former labor attorney, what that is. But then now coming into a place that allowed you to flourish, that allowed you to tap into all of your interests and gave you a space, a safe space to really explore all that, and where your values were aligned so that now not only did you find a fit, but you're able to really grow and flourish in that relationship.
And honestly, that's when I became a lawyer 30 years ago, when I even went to law school, it was all about that concept. It was all about the fact that we spend a third of our lives at our jobs, and in my mind I'm like, it should be a place where we flourish, and grow, and can develop and enjoy, because that's a big chunk of our lives. And so to have that opportunity is really so amazing. And then to watch you grow and develop in the company, which is absolutely incredible. So there's a couple things too that I wanted to just point out when you did talk about this internalized idea. Do you find that a lot with the women that you work with, is that they are just indoctrinated in this way of thinking, that there's no other opportunity, that they have to play it this way, that they've been so conditioned that even if they don't like the culture or they don't like where they're at, they think they have to be there and pay their dues and play the game?
I mean, do you find that a lot? And then how do you support them in helping them to break out of that like you were able to do or you were helped to be able to do with the mentors that you had, to be able to step into what's possible?
Maricella:
Yeah, that's a great question. I do. I see this a lot. And I will say I see it in my personal life with my friends, which is very interesting. I see it with the people at Elevate in the community. I think we have been conditioned to think success means working really hard, making money, and rinse and repeat. Move up in a certain ladder and be this idea of what a leader is. And let's be honest, when you think of leaders, when you think of CEOs, when you think of people who are leading businesses, it's usually a middle-aged, cisgender, heterosexual white man.
Carol:
Yes. Very patriarchy. Very embedded in the patriarchy.
Maricella:
Or like someone I know likes to say, pale, male and stale.
Carol:
Well, that's what [inaudible 00:21:37] ... I mean, right?
Maricella:
Exactly.
Carol:
That's what we see on the news, it's what we see in the magazines, it's what we grew up watching, it was the business leaders that they always give us to study and research. I have to say this one little commentary, it drives me crazy that every time people talk about any kind of research, or quotes, or things you need to know, it's always quoting a white male as the expert. And I love that even in this, you start talking about, no, it was this woman, it was that woman and this trail blazer. We need more of that. So, anyway.
Maricella:
Exactly. And that's kind of where I was going. I do think that women, we are still indoctrinated into this, this is the way we need to act in order for us to get to this definition of what success means, so that what? I don't even know what is the next so that ...
Carol:
So that we can burn on leave and start our own businesses. That's the end result, really.
Maricella:
Yeah. And the reason I started with saying with my friends is because you're catching me at an interesting point. So I saw a friend of mine on Friday, and she is someone I went to business school with, a white woman in her late 30s with a background in investment banking. And I had written an article in my newsletter on Friday about, it was the last day of Women's History Month, what if women were in charge? What is my utopian vision of 2070 and we are finally at equality? And she said to me, "Yeah, I'm not a feminist."
And I was like, "What? Explain that to me." And her take was I have never felt that I've been in disadvantage because of my gender. I have never felt I have been paid less than men or that men have it better than me. I'm not going to go into how that conversation went, but it was interesting to me to see how deeply indoctrinated we are that we can't even see, just like I at some point like at that moment when I had that question in that interview was like, something's off, but I'm not really sure what's off, how we don't even see how we've been impacted. And granted, this is, like I said, a privileged white person and the experiences are vastly different. So I have to acknowledge that. But it is the idea of how are we not even realizing where we are being left out? And it's because, like you said, it's what we see externally. It's what we've been trained to see. It's how we've been conditioned to move forward.
And like you mentioned, I kept talking about these women, and these trailblazers and these mentors that have helped me. It's because that's how I think we can share and help others is by sharing the stories of people who have changed their definition of success, who have opened their eyes and said no more, who have come up and said, you might not realize that you are not in a position that you should be. Let me help you open your eyes and let me help you get out of there. Let me help you come up. I think if we can't see the options of what the world can be for us, we're not going to ever get out of it. I never realized that success can be being just very proud of the work of creating an impact in one person's life, two person's lives. And that to me now is much more valuable than saying, oh, I'm making X amount of money.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that. And I think that is so key is how we define success. It's one of the first things that when the clients that we work with is we want you to define it for yourself, because it's been so externally defined and we've just indoctrinated that. Like you said, it's a title, it's an income, it's a status symbol. There's no joy, there's no impact, there's no value. All of that seems to be removed because there's this external, which honestly I think is a very male, individualized, siloed ideal of success, competitive idea of success as opposed to what it means for you as an individual. And I also think that people, sometimes we have this very binary way of thinking about, well, I've gotten jobs, I've gotten promoted, people have helped me. I am a director or VP, so I haven't had any problems. Gender hasn't impacted me, race hasn't impacted me, because look at the trajectory that I've gone through in my career.
And I think people need to stop thinking about it as it's not always a personal affront, it's a systemic societal conditioning that impacts you in sometimes very invisible and insidious ways that you don't even notice if your eyes aren't open. And so I think we have this binary idea that it has to be some physical thing that makes you feel as if you've not been impacted. But you have been impacted, whether you realize it or not. It's like the air you breathe, you don't realize you're breathing it, but yet there it is.
Maricella:
Yeah. And I do want to say something. When I talk about the definition of success, and like you, I think it's the first where you have to start. I did say I'm making impact and that to me means more than making money. Not saying we shouldn't make money. Money is powerful and we should absolutely be making money and we should absolutely be being paid what we're worth. Where I'm going is, I guess partly what are you doing with that? Wherever you get to, which comes back to my conversation with my friend and what you were saying about systemically there is an issue, there are many issues we need to solve. How are we then taking whatever success we have in whatever way possible and using it for improving where we are at, improving the world for other people?
And it's true. It is like the air you breathe, you don't think about it. There's the company, Aleria, who I'm a big fan of, they do what they do is they measure inclusion. And I always like to remember how when they are talking about it, they say inclusion, it's a headache in a way. You don't think about it until you have a moment of exclusion. So you don't think about headaches until you have that pain.
Carol:
Yes.
Maricella:
And so how do we actually bring it to a point where we're thinking about it in a way that's more proactive?
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I love that. I love that. So we talked a little bit about, I think from an individual perspective, for women to really get clear about what does success mean to them, defining that. Thinking about maybe if there have been indoctrinated ways of thinking, what are some other ways that maybe they can think about their career and how they show up in the world and the work that they want to do? And I love that you talked about you wanted to do something where you made an impact. I think when we talk about this idea of success, there's also this idea of if you want to make an impact, that equals poverty, that's a social worker kind of thing. If you want to make a difference, then you have to leave money off the table.
And I agree with you, I think we live in a capitalist society. Money makes the world around, we needed to survive. I'm all about it. So I'm definitely not one to say either not to do that. But I think to your point earlier, it's how you define it. It's really what makes sense for you and the combination that makes sense for you. How do you talk about or support women who are at that struggle, who I want to do something that makes an impact, I want to do something where I feel like I'm leaving a legacy, but I feel like that's going to mean I'm going to have to compromise this other way of being and living? How do you have that conversation when women talk to you about wanting to do that? Or even how did you talk to yourself when you were having that conversation? I mean, I'm sure real estate banking paid well.
Maricella:
Well, I was in Mexico, so let's not forget that. For me, it was a very hard conversation to have with myself. And I like talking about that story, about this topic in particular, because like I said before, I think we learn from stories, we learn from seeing other people go through with it. I had a really hard time. I had a really, really hard time with myself. And I was extremely unhappy for a while thinking I had completely failed. And I think the idea of changing your mindset from failure to self-awareness first, it starts there. The first thing is getting to know yourself, the good, the bad, the ugly, the little parts of you that you might not want to face. I'm a huge fan of therapy. Everyone should be in therapy.
Carol:
Yes. Ditto. Ditto.
Maricella:
So I think that was part of it. And understanding that there is something more. And I hate talking about values and purpose, because those words get thrown out a lot without saying really much, but it goes back to values and purpose. It goes back to what gets you fired up. And that's what I had to realize. I had to be more aware of what were the things that bothered me? What were the things that really in my core made me be like, absolutely not, that's not okay? Because those were the things that were driving me. And I think that that's a conversation we have to honestly have with ourselves. So for me, I think I help or I try to help when someone is thinking of this by asking those questions, reminding people to ask your questions. What drives you? What gets you fired up?
If there are two things that are very important to you, what are they? And how would your life be different if those things were not present? Or if they were present in a more much bigger way, what would you do? I think when we started talking about what Elevate does, it is about creating these spaces. And what I've seen, thankfully, is when you create this space where people come from different backgrounds and different perspectives, and they really know it's a safe space where they can show up fully and authentically, these conversations start happening. And by seeing one person be honest in that way, it goes around, it starts becoming something that is much more normalized. And I think that that's partly why vulnerability in leadership is such an important thing, because if you see leaders be vulnerable, see leaders talk about this, you can again do it yourself.
So that's how I started and what I think, is a lot of it is asking questions. And my favorite question is why? So my team always kind of laughs, because every time I ask them or they start telling me something about their lives, and I do think that as a leader, your first thing is coaching, that's what you are, you're coaching the rest of the people, and my question's always why? And they answer and I ask again why? And they answer and I ask again why? But it's ask yourself why. Ask yourself these hard-hitting questions that sometimes we don't want to see. But that's a good place to get started.
Carol:
Yeah. And questions we probably just haven't given ourselves permission to even ask, the time, space or permission to even ask, either because we're afraid of the answer or we just don't want to explore. But man, what could come out of that? The knowledge and self-awareness that could come out of that could be excessively powerful. Now, you were touching on leaders in the workplace and a safe space in the workplace. And I want to shift a little bit to talk about the workplace and what the workplace organizations could maybe start doing in support of women in these places. We've seen the McKinsey report, IBM's report just came out. So much data about what organizations could and should be doing around that. And I would love to just get your take around leaders' roles in ensuring that employees are feeling safe and creating that psychological safety in the workplace.
Maricella:
You said my favorite phrase, psychological safety. I think we don't talk about psychological safety enough, and that's the core of how you create a workplace where people feel like they can come in and you're not just talking about diversity for diversity's sake, but for what it really can bring to the table. Yes, there's tons of data, there's tons of research on what is happening, why women are leaving the workforce, where are the problems. God, last year there was so much conversation about women losing their ambition, and it just made me so angry because that's nothing to do with it. I'd say first, organizations have to take a very hard look at themselves too and think where are we? Are we doing things in a way, particularly when it comes to promotions, setting people into visible projects that will advance their career, are we doing it equitably?
And the reason why is because in the McKinsey report you mentioned, for example, the biggest place where we're losing women, it's when it's coming to management. That is it. That is where women are leaving. And the reason is because they're not being promoted. And if we can't get them to another place, then of course they're going to leave. Of course we're going to leave. Why would we stay? The other thing I think that is very important in that we say, okay, let's get more people promoted. Sure. Once you're there, then what? Organizations do not have enough support for managers, particularly first time managers. I recently learned this, and I've been repeating it because it blew my mind, that the average age for people to get promoted to management is around 35. The average age where people get management training is around 40.
Carol:
Oh geez.
Maricella:
Right.
Carol:
That's a five-year gap.
Maricella:
What are you doing with those five years? People are just figuring it out on their own. And managers, in my opinion, are the people who have the most vital role when it comes to building psychological safety within an organization. Managers are the ones that set the culture. You can say whatever you want about leaders and the CEO has the commitment to inclusion. The CEO will not know the 8,000 people that work in an organization. What the CEO can do is make sure that that commitment goes to their direct reports, and that those direct reports give it to their direct reports, and so on and so forth. But culture is what happens, not necessarily what you say has happened. It is what actually is happening within teams. It is actually how the company's values are being lived or not lived.
And that is on the ground. So that is where managers really need the support, the support to be not just how do you work with people? And most people in the way that management is currently set, you are going to be promoted to manager based on your individual contributor results, which has nothing to do with being a manager, which has nothing to do with knowing how to make sure that your team feels safe, that they can come as themselves, that they can put their ideas out there. So I think that there is a huge opportunity for organizations to focus on that particular rung, so to speak.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the things you think could really support managers in that effort? Because I think you're completely right. The leader set the tone, the vision, they lay out the statement. And obviously if they're not doing the work themselves, then a manager is going to be like, whatever, that's just another Tuesday memo. So I mean, they definitely need to set the vision in doing the work themselves. But what are some of the things that you think they could do to really support managers to be accountable, to be supportive, to really help to create and change their culture? Because you're right, if they're not implementing the vision or acting counterintuitive to the vision, then it means nothing collectively.
Maricella:
Yeah. Like I said, training, and by training, I don't mean training on how to not micromanage. I've heard that from organizations, "But our managers do have training." I mean, training-
Carol:
How to give feedback.
Maricella:
Yeah, how to get feedback. How to communicate in a way that's inclusive, that's a big thing. How to make sure you're promoting inclusively and equitably, and have measurement tied to all those things, which is not necessarily how it works. Performance evaluations are not necessarily tied to the more, I don't want to say soft, but the more EQ side of the spectrum. I think leaders can definitely help managers by making sure that they know that they have power. I think that's another aspect that we don't necessarily convey. I talk to a lot of people at Elevate, and they are like, "Well, but I don't have any power." We all have power because we all have the way that we act, the way that we show up, and the way that we can sponsor or help someone else. That's power.
And I think a lot of managers don't realize that they have that. They think that they're just doing the work and heads down. I think leaders can do a lot more to show that there is power there. So training. Making sure that you know that you have the power to set the tone. Sponsoring managers that are doing the thing. Making sure that there is visibility, that creating psychological safety is important. Not just, oh, sure, good. You're doing it. So I think about all the people that work within companies that lead ERGs, for example, employee resource groups, and they're doing it on top of the regular job. They're not going to be paid for it. At least make sure that they're being recognized in some way.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And tying performance and then their raises to that work, letting them be not only recognized for it, but paid for it. Letting it be part of their performance standards, I think that's absolutely amazing. Yeah. Such great advice, such great tips. Love it. So I have another question for you, I'd love to get people's take on this. When you think of the term career rebel, what does that mean to you?
Maricella:
I love that. I love the name of your podcast so much, because I think it is, I don't know. I identify with it for sure. I think it goes back to what we were talking about when it comes to success. I think being a career rebel is making sure that you are staying true to yourself when you are navigating your career, not necessarily to whatever externally has been put in your mind, but what you and your heart of hearts really feel is right. I think that to me is being a career rebel, I think.
Carol:
Oh, love that. Love that. So any other final words or thoughts that you would love to share before we close this out?
Maricella:
Well, if your listeners are feeling like they need a space to get to, if your company's not providing that, or even if it is and you just want to expand that, definitely check out Elevate. We're here for you. I mean, I'm biased, I'm sure, but it's really a great community with lots of smart people who also want to see a very different way of work. So join us elevatenetwork.com, and hopefully I'll see you there.
Carol:
I love it. I love it. And we'll definitely make sure we have all the link and information in the show notes so that everyone can access that. Maricella, this has been an absolute joy. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to have this conversation with us. I think it is so needed, so necessary, so powerful, so many insights. Thank you so much.
Maricella:
Thank you so much for having me.
Carol:
All right, rebels, and there you have it. That's another episode of the podcast. This is going to be one you're going to want to put on replay because there's so many gems and nuggets that you're going to want to hear that can not only help you, but maybe some thoughts and strategies that you can even bring within your organization. And listen, stay tuned for some other amazing guests that we're having this season. And in the interim, have an amazingly rebellious week and I'll see you soon.
