Carol:
Hey, Rebels. Welcome back to the podcast. I am so excited today because I have a friend, a colleague, who is an expert in the branding and digital strategy space. Who's a coach, who has an amazing background and career. I'll let her tell a little bit more about that a little bit later.
But let me start by introducing our guest. Her name is Petra Zink. She is a certified personal branding and digital strategist, an international speaker, coach, consultant, author, and podcast host of the Trusted Authority. And she uses her Trusted Authority framework to help individuals and executives become known, respected, and trusted authorities in their industry through establishing their influence beyond their title.
And that's why I'm so excited to have her here today because I know so many of you out there need work on positioning yourself as a trusted authority in your field. And today, she's going to talk about systematizing your IP, or creating a framework around what you do to really leverage your authority. But before we get into that, I want to welcome you, Petra, to the podcast. Thanks for being here.
Petra:
Carol, thank you so much for having me. I've been following your journey. We've been in different programs together, and you just amaze me with your knowledge with the communities you bring together. So, I'm honestly super excited to have this conversation today.
Carol:
Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. So, before we really get into it, I would love to hear a little bit about your journey and how you came into doing the work that you're doing, and supporting your client base and the people that you work with so beautifully.
Petra:
Absolutely. Now, what I'm doing today, as you said, I'm a personal brand and interest strategist and also executive coach. And I would usually say more so C-suite coach because my specialization is working with technical experts and often also executives who want to become the gold to trusted authorities in their field. It's not about being famous, it's not about celebrity status, it's not about massive following online.
It's about how can you influence with and without the title, especially when you have grown up with being rewarded for your technical expertise. But as we know, the higher you climb, the less it's about how good you are. The more it is about how can you get the best out of others and how can you communicate that? And this is where so many... I always call them left brainer, even though I know there's not a left and right brain. But this is where they often get stuck because our second nature is doing the doing that's comfortable to us. And because we have been in our professional industry for 10, 20, 30 plus years, it's our default to fall back in the doing. But how many executive leaders are doing the doing not that many. And this is where it requires a skillset shift, a tool set shift, but also most importantly a mindset shift. And this is what hardly anyone is about. So this is what I'm doing today. How did I get here, by accident?
I always say it's my third career and probably not the last one either. So I started doing brand and product marketing and I was one of those people, first in last out. Worked my way in a corner and I thought somebody will pick up how good I was. And it was the case in the first 10 years of my career when I just learned the skills and the technical abilities, I developed it. And then in my last role in marketing, I was called into my manager's office on a Friday morning. And I thought, must be time for my next promotion because that was always the case in my previous roles. And the opposite happened. I thought, I'm kicking goals here. And she said, "You are on a performance improvement plan." I was like, "How? What? Excuse me. How could it even happen?" And they said, "We see that you are doing the doing, however, in your role, you are influencing and managing 18 boards at that stage. And you have to enable your teams to do the doing and you have to influence on a bigger scale. And we can't see that in you."
And it was the first time when I realized my perception about what's required to get ahead and my decision makers perception about what's required, two different worlds. But nobody taught me that I had never done coaching before. I just did more of what I've done to get me to that stage. And I thought it just keeps going, but it didn't. And this was my end of this first career. And this is how I got into recruitment. By accident, again, digital and technology only because every other agency rejected me saying, I don't have the sales background and recruitment background. We need somebody who hits the ground running. But there is something that's apparently a thing. It's digital and technology.
We don't know what it is. We don't have a client, we don't have a candidate, but you go and if you don't build within the next six months, you are out. And I quickly had to learn. And what I realized... Because I didn't come from that background, I asked just so many questions to my candidates that I could translate what they were saying, what they could do to an role, to an industry, to a company, and translate it to my decision makers, who were usually C-suite leaders or heads of departments.
And they were usually focused more on the commercial language and the simple language rather than the technical details. And this is how I placed over 300 candidates in the next four years. And I thought, you know what? There's only so many people I can place. What if there is a system or a method or a framework that I can teach my candidates to clarify their value proposition? What makes them different? What's their competitive edge? Then they can communicate it clearly and confidently and they can commercialize it in one way or the other. It may be through a corporate role, it may be through their own business, it may be through a portfolio career. And this is how I ended up starting impact with Triple C's, because everyone wants to make an impact, but nobody actually knows what that even means. So when we talk about systemizing your knowledge, this is exactly the framework what I developed, and this is where we are right now.
Carol:
Oh, I love it. Such a great story. And I love that you talked about how just putting your head down and working hard and being the doer and doing everything, thinking that you're about to get called in for a gold star promotion, all the accolades, and you're like, I don't think so. Because so many people don't realize that once you get into the C-suite, the executive level, it isn't as you said about doing, right? It's about influencing and inspiring and casting a vision and really leading and in an authority role. And so I love that your own personal experience led you down the road to really creating something that helps people at that level to really be successful and not just have their head down, but really focus on building that IP and building themselves as a trusted authority. And you use that term trusted authority. What does that mean? How do you define that? Because I also know you're an author of the book Trusted Authority. So tell me what does that mean?
Petra:
Absolutely. Now, what happened in 2020, obviously the world turned up upside down for many, many reasons. And what we've also seen is that a lot more companies have now a digital first approach. Like we've building global teams. There's a lot more competition in the market because of smaller startups being more agile and nimble and less expensive. But at the same time, with so many layoffs and redundancies, a lot of executives or professionals stepped out of corporate and set up their own consultancy. And could do a transformation project for a fraction of the cost from a big four, for example. And I thought because the questions that I got asked from my clients changed, how can I influence also when I don't have the face-to-face contact all the time? How can a lead a team when I don't know what they're up to, everyone's got their cameras turned off, everyone's got their own way of doing things, I can't control it.
And some also said actually, I don't want to lead anymore. Like I thought leadership roles and leading big teams is the one and only thing that I aspire to be. But then covid put things into perspective and a lot of professionals also questioned themselves. And I thought, what does it actually take to influence? How can you make things happen whether you've got the title or not? Because of [inaudible 00:08:14] hierarchies that we also see in organizations, you can't necessarily rely on the tenure to get you the title and then with that influence. So you need to think differently. Plus the digital first world creates another layer of complexity. And this is when I started researching what does it actually take to influence beyond your title, beyond your roles? How can you use persuasive language and communication to get things done, to get people along the journey? And this led me to the trusted authority and I dug a little bit deeper and thought, now what exactly is the difference between those who are really smart and those who are actually getting ahead? Because it's not necessarily a correlation.
And this is where I ended up with the explanation that experts, they're really good at what they're doing. They get their hands dirty, they get things done, they solve a problem. And that's great, especially at the beginning stage of your career. And authority also has a deep level of understanding and expertise in a field. Plus they've built a parallel skillset and they've learned how to communicate not only the problem that they're solving, but also how.
And trust is built by transparency. In the second attempt, take people through the journey of what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, and they can kind of be part of that. We trust somebody a lot more, and this is also what's required in this digital first world. We can't just work in our own little corner and hope somebody will pick up how good we are. We need to be able to communicate it. And this is where also systemizing knowledge comes in, which we are talking about in a second. But this is basically the explanation, expert really good at what you do, trust or authority. Really good what you do, plus you're able to communicate it and also expose yourself to the right people for the right reasons.
Carol:
I love that. Such a great explanation. And I think you alluded to it in your definition about why it's so critical in terms of being able to advance your career, position yourself is that you have that plus piece. That ability to communicate and to explain what it is. But are there some other reasons why it's so important to make sure that that's what you're leaning toward, not just the expert status, but the trusted authority status to get ahead?
Petra:
Absolutely. Now, especially in the last few months, there has been so much conversation, controversial conversation probably around AI and what does it do to different industries and professions and tasks, and we will see a lot of tasks getting replaced or shifted. So it's not so much about the doing and the knowing because we cannot out compete machines, technology and robots when it comes to knowledge. But we can compete on our human skills. And this is very much the connection, the communication, the complex problem solving. And I was also in the US where we caught up finally in person and attended another conference and they were talking about the future careers. And one of those roles were prompt engineer. And that... When I thought it's more about how we think and how critically we inspect a problem, a question a situation, rather than doing the doing.
So it's more important than ever before to realize what is it that I can do? What's the transformation, the result that I can bring based on my background, and then communicate it to an audience that I can bring them along the journey. And the last thing that I would say why it's also so important nowadays is because a lot more experts step out of corporate. They've got maybe say 20, 30 plus years experience and they say, "I want to become now a consultant, and why should we choose you?" There's so many consultants and coaches everywhere, and this is also why it's a bit of a shady profession because it doesn't mean much. It's non regulated industry. So if you want to become an, I don't know, architect consultant in the afternoon, guess what you are? You don't need the official qualification, which is why it's even more important to have the signature framework or the method or the system that you can talk people through what you do, how you do it, and where we are in the progress to make it a lot more transparent.
Carol:
I love that so much. And yeah, I do want to turn to systematizing your IP because I think that's a great way to be able to communicate your expertise. But I have a quick question about when you are... And you use the example, if you're transitioning to be a consultant, you're leaving the workplace to be a consultant. But if you're also trying to transition or pivot in your career and maybe you know, have this fear that, well, I don't have the experience in that industry, or I don't have the time that I put into this side of my career. I have 10 or 15 years over here in this industry, but now I want to transition into a leadership role in another industry. What are some ways that you work with or help your clients to be able to really still position themselves as an authority even when they're pivoting or transitioning into another industry?
Petra:
I love this question. I think it's so relevant to most of us because we've seen during and after covid, industries that were on top didn't exist next day. Like travel, hospitality and so forth. So we need to be able to shift, to pivot, to adjust what's happening in the market right now. And I also did some research on what does it take to stand out from the crowd, from the noise. It's a very noisy world. And the most effective way that I've found and also work with my clients on is to connect two worlds. Two worlds that are relevant to you and your background and to where you want to go. But also to your decision maker. And I'll give you a few examples because I think that we'll get the listeners going and inspired with their own two worlds. So let's say you are a project manager and your specialization is red tape industries. There's a lot of red tape, a lot of regulation.
How can you navigate through that? That's a very unique skill set. It's not just a project manager, but the promise is I can make things done even with all the red tape and I can get that it done within the timeframe and on the budget. That's a very unique positioning. If I say I'm a project manager and a vegan, does not have to do anything with each other, I don't add any value. If I'm a personal trainer and I'm a vegan, that's another value proposition that's relevant to a certain audience. And we can play that game in so many ways. The worlds that I've connected was brand and product marketing initially for the fast moving consumer goods industry with psychology and career development. Because the same principle supply, how do we make decisions? Why do we buy a brand over a white label and pay six times more than the white label, even though that does exactly the same job?
Logically it doesn't make sense, but it comes down to the emotion that we connect with the brand. And we can turn that also into personal brands. We just need to also take psychology in consideration and emotions, because people talk and walk. Products can't do that. But we can still learn that. So think of what are the two worlds that you can connect? And I always say, "If you can't hide it, feature it." So many are concerns that I don't have the MBA or I don't have this or I don't have that, then feature it because I don't come from this background, educational background. What I bring to a table is X, Y, Z. Or how can you leverage a tool or a method that you've learned from this one industry into this other industry that they have not been exposed to yet, but could very much help also to get the result? And this is how you can establish yourself as the authority in that space because no one else can compete with your background and your story, but this is exactly what makes you unique.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So instead of really being intimidated because you're moving into a different industry, really tap into the uniqueness that you bring to the table that you've done so successfully and related to what the decision makers are looking for so that you can show that while I may not have this, look at what I am bringing to the table that is so necessary for you or will help you or definitely impact your bottom line or ROI or whatever the case is. So really looking at the two connections there, I really love that. That's a great way to look at it.
Petra:
And I also think this forces us to think critically and connect the dots from our past. What other patterns? And you will see everyone's got their own patterns. Maybe it's a fast-paced industry and environment that you thrive in. Maybe it is those high regulated and red tape industries and you know how to navigate your way around. Or it is very nimble organizations or very large and traditional organizations that you can turn around. Everyone's got their background already, but it's more about finding their dots and then connecting them and translating them into the story as to what is it that you want to be known for, and how can you make sense out of that for others. This is step one.
Carol:
Yeah. And honestly, this means that we're not being passive. It's not about just showing up. And I always tell my clients, that people don't want to do your work for you. So yeah, you do need to connect the dots and make it super clear so that they can easily read the story, read the book, or understand what it is that you're telling them. And so what I'm taking... What you're telling me is to say this isn't a passive activity. Know your stuff, know what you come to the table with, understand as much as you can, connect those dots for people, and really step into that authority so that people can see you that way as well.
Petra:
Absolutely. And if you don't take control over your narrative, somebody else will. And if I say I'm in this industry, but I wanted to shift here, it's like what's wrong with this person? Because we just put all the potential negative things in that story rather than saying, white staff never worked in the medical industry. My recent experience with a family member, and they took care of them so well, made me really committed to contributing to this industry. It doesn't often need to be a professional connection. It could be a personal connection. Why you want to make this change. And this is why it's so important to really look at all aspects of you as a person rather than just your credentials, because we can't rely on the degree or the tenure that we have had, especially when the world and the economy is moving so fast. So it's also what kind of transferrable and soft skills can I bring to a table, and my interests that create a new value proposition.
Carol:
So take control of that narrative and storytelling is so powerful. Which I think leads to this whole idea of systematizing your IP to leverage your authority. So when you're talking about creating that kind of systematized framework for your IP as part of your positioning as an authority, how do you do that? What does that mean? What does that even look like?
Petra:
Now, one of the biggest challenges that I've come across with coaches and consultants or who want to get into that world especially. Or to be honest, any kind of knowledge workers, is that they often lack the confidence to communicate what they can do, and also have the confidence that they can create the same results of rent or [inaudible 00:19:37], that it's a predictable outcome. When I say I'm specialized in digital transformation, okay how do you do it? Well, we go in and then we figure it out. Not a good answer. Or even with cultures, I help you to go from confusion to clarity to confidence. It's a nice headline and often, but when we say, okay, cool, how do you do it? Well, we find a few tests and then we do some interviews.
This is not what gives me confidence that you can create the results. And also the person who sells it or pitches themselves, they don't have the confidence either. Whereas if I say I focus... My value proposition is to turn highly regulated industries into nimble industries. What do we need to do? Well first we need to do an audit where everyone is at. We look at technical activities, resources, and X, Y, Z. And the tools that I'm using to get those outcomes are X, Y, and Z. So I've got already a lot more confidence in what am I doing when and how. Of course the actual outcomes will differ from the companies or the projects that you're working on. But at least you've got a toolkit and the background that you can draw upon and that this is exactly the kind of outcome we are looking for. So that's a more repeatable.
And at the same stage, you also know what kind of mindsets, shifts, or blocks or obstacles could come in the way that I need to get rid of. Initially, we all have this euphoria and everyone is excited, motivated, and two weeks later after we start something new, boom boom. This is where we don't go to the gym anymore. We don't do the outreach, so we don't do whatever because it all of a sudden feels hard, the initial emphasis is gone. So when I note it, I built in my program a method and exercise that overcomes that, that addresses that early. Because when I can speak your language, when I can already address what most people think or feel, then they already trust me because we speak the same language, and this is exactly what the system is all about. So knowing how you can go or support your clients or companies to go from here to there, sets you already apart from anyone else who have the same skillset or a similar skillset, but they don't know how to communicate that.
And the last thing that I say, because it just is very fresh on my mind, the X... I can't even remember the role that she had, but she was working with Apple and she does now brand positioning. And she said, "Well, I've got this magic feeling what I can do to an organization to help them position themselves." And the company said, "This is not enough. We need to pitched that to our clients." And she went away and came up with the six Cs. So this is her framework now. And she said, "Oh, there is actually a pattern. I've gone through the 300 plus clients that I've worked with and there's always a system that I go through." So I would say 99% of people have already their own system. They just have not communicated it or put it down to paper, and put a bit of a bow around it that you can communicate it very easily.
Think of the Maslow hierarchy even though it's not even a hierarchy and it's not even developed by Maslow. But everyone connects those two pieces because it's a visual representation of the different stages of human needs. When we talk about this calf model in the coaching world, everyone knows how to use it. So in the second, the system lives by itself. It's not person dependent and lives beyond you. And this is then what you can commercialize in different ways through speak engagement, through a book, through coaching programs, through training to consulting, you name it. Because it's not dependent on the person who does it. It's dependent on extracting the IP and the knowledge and the wisdom into repeatable steps and actions.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that. And I think to what you were saying, I often tell people there's a difference between a framework and a process, because sometimes people like you say, they'll get into the weeds and say, well, how do you do that? Well, we'll meet and then we will fill out some forms and then we'll take some notes and then we'll meet again. And that to me is part of your process of the things that you do, but your framework is really the kind of key areas. What I hear you saying, that you need to go through in order to get the ideal result that your target audience or your client or the company that you're working for, the department that you're leaning into, need to understand that this is why you're so different, and what you bring to the table that can really help them mean is that something similar that she was say...
Petra:
100%. We are also tapping into the marketing world. You are selling the benefits and not the features. Same with processes versus signature framework. It's high level outcome. When I talked before, clarification, communication, commercialization. I don't tell you exactly the steps, the hours, the tools, the quizzes that we do in each of the stage, because you can't be bothered. Same when you think of your own process, you don't want to go into the weeds and say, this is what we use for three and a half hours and then we do these three quizzes. Nobody cares. There's a saying, sell the destiny, not the plane. You want to sell the beautiful white beach, you relax, you feel the breeze, not the 18 hours flight that gets you there and you've got the crying babies and then you have to wait. Nobody wants that. It may be required, but we don't sell that in initial stage. Knowing how you actually do it in each of the stages. This backs up your capabilities and your competence, but you don't go out on selling that at all. This is not how you communicate
Carol:
And to have this systematized IP, this creative signature framework, I mean that levels up your brand and your ability to really position yourself as a trusted authority. I mean, that sounds like a game changer for a lot of people.
Petra:
Absolutely. And this is also what sets us apart that no one else can compete with, because I always say connect studies with stories. So in each of the stages, you want to have a story connected with how you explored the tool, for example. Like I used for my clarification phase, the brand archetype tests. And how I came across it was when I graduated from uni with a master's in marketing, I thought I knew it all, right? As we ought to. And then we got presented with this beautiful kind of apple style campaign for birds are fish fingers, it's all for kids. And I thought, oh, it's amazing. The deal is close. And my manager said, "Oh, it's beautiful, but it's not within our brand archetypes." I was like, "What's brand archetypes?" I thought I knew at all as a graduate. And she said, "Well, there are 12 different personalities and depending on what your brand should represent, we communicate that specific trait."
It's like, "Oh, this is why it wouldn't resonate." And I applied it to my clients because in the end, we want to make corporate brands or products more human, and this is why we add certain human traits to it. But we as humans, we already have that and that helps us to explain why we behave in certain ways. We add language and logic towards behavior and emotions. So all of a sudden we can make it a lot more transparent and tangible. But this is my personal story. Somebody else may have studied psychology or may have done some research to find out their own tool set. So this is what makes your signature framework so unique because you can back it up with some studies and stories along the way and not have just pulled different pieces together, and put a bow on it and said, "Here we go. Because that's fake.
Carol:
I love it. Yeah, totally. I love that studies with stories that is powerful, that combination, it just elevates your uniqueness and your authority as what we're talking about, which I think is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. Do you find... Or what would you say are some of the challenges or things to avoid when you're putting this together? I know we talked about, don't get into the weeds of the processes higher level, but what are some of the other things people should really watch out for where they're trying to position themselves as a trusted authority or really positioning their IP out there?
Petra:
Well, the biggest mistake at the beginning that everyone makes is they're going too broad and they are for everyone, or they're trying to be for everyone anyway. And whilst your method may apply to everyone for whatever reason, if you try to talk to everyone you're speaking to no one because everyone's got their own nuances, their own language, their own stories that they resonate with. If I'm a person trainer, I can focus on helping you to get to the competition. I can help you to lose the last five kilos to get wedding ready. It's all kind of the same. And the methods probably are very similar, but I'm talking different languages. And this is again, where it comes down to knowing who can you serve the best because of your background, because of your own interests, and then focus on that. And in the second you've got traction, you can always go broader again.
But nowadays, where it's so noisy and everyone is everything, in the second we are hyper-focused and hyper-specialized and only target a certain industry or profession or a tool, you get a lot more traction, a lot quicker. And then once you've proven it, then you can go broader again. So I started with only working with different technology professionals because that was my background through recruitment. And now over the years, because I've gotten more traction also, I'm also working with lawyers and accountants and coaches and consultants. But it didn't start there straight away. And even though I still want to hyper focus and niche now on emerging technologies even now to go so super specific, but this is probably the biggest mistake that people are making. Plus, as you said before, going straight into all the details, listing all the 237 steps out and trying to communicate that in every detail because this is what makes us credible and it's not the case.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that. Such great information. I so appreciate this. This is so important, as you said, in the future of work and with AI and with so many changes, that is so important that we find ways to really elevate ourselves above the crowd, above the fray so that we can be seen, that we can be understood, and that we can really make the impacts that we want to make in our careers. I love the work that you're doing and thank you so much for sharing it.
Petra:
Oh, you are such a... Listen, thank you so much for having me.
Carol:
Absolutely. So I have one more question for you. I would love to know what does a career rebel mean to you when you hear that term?
Petra:
Personally, I love this term. I love it. Because rebel for me means going against the grain. And I think nowadays we don't only have the opportunity but the responsibility to look after our own career and shape it in a way that we want it to be. So if I'm 30 years in this one profession, I still can change into completely different direction. It's not too late at all. We've got more access to information, to tools, to communities than ever before. It's more a matter of actually doing it.
So rebel for me, it's all about going against the grain, standing up. Also when everyone says standing... Sit down and stay where you are right now because it requires a lot of courage to start with, to get going in any direction. And in the second we do something new, it's scary, it's daunting. We could fail and somebody could shoot us down, but this is exactly when I know there's so much more that I want to bring to this industry, to my community, to my profession. This is exactly when I actually need to do it. So I love the work that you're doing because I think especially in this mid-level, this is where you go either way. You either step it up and make a much bigger contribution or you stay there and always regret to not actually having stood up.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that you said that's exactly, I think the dilemma when you're at midlife. So you're exactly right. And listen, just in case you were wondering, Petra is from Austria, if you've caught the accent, but lives in Australia. So I am so thankful-
Petra:
What makes this completely weird accent, like everybody in the US said, "Where are you from South Africa? Or..." Because I've got this weird mix.
Carol:
Yes. But I love it. I love it. So this international... Which honestly, I think what I love about that is that when you have this global perspective, you gain such a bigger understanding and experience level that you bring to the table that I'm sure your clients definitely benefit from in incredible ways.
Petra:
Yes. And this is something that we also, all of us should focus on more, cross-cultural communication skills. Because what's accepted in one culture may not be accepted in others. And we work now with global teams. So having the one and one size fits all approach in your leadership or communication side doesn't cut it anymore. And I learned it the first time when I led a team in Australia, coming from Austria, where everyone is right in your face. And I did the same because this is the only way how I was always led. And I got my team to cry and I was like, "What's wrong with these people?" I didn't realize there was a sandwich technique and all of that. I thought they are weird. It's not me. Clearly. Right?Everyone's against you. But it comes down to self awareness, if you want to lead yourself as a business owner or as a team, same, same.
Carol:
Absolutely. Absolutely. For sure. So tell us, Petra, where can people find you? Where can they get your book, get access to your podcast and so much more. And we'll have all this in the show notes too, just in case, but please share.
Petra:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. Well, I make it very simple. So everything is called the Trusted Authority. If you look on the podcast, because we are a podcast trusted authority. If you're looking for the book, trusted Authority. My group coaching program, trusted Authority, everything has the same to make it very easy to remember. And where everyone could connect with me is LinkedIn. This is... I always say it's my second home. So I would love to connect with everyone, chat there, and yeah, definitely continue the conversation.
Carol:
I love it there. You have a Trusted Authority that is branding my friends, that is branding. Well, again, Petra, so much for joining me. I appreciate you taking time out to be here and to share with everyone, sharing such important vital information and a new way to think about how to show up in the world and show up in your work.
Petra:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. As I said, I love your work and I couldn't support you anymore. So thank you again. Thank you,
Carol:
Thank you. Well, there you have it Rebels, another amazing episode with the amazing Petra. I know you're going to want to re-listen to this and pick up all those gems and nuggets that you'll be able to utilize in your life and career. And listen, join us next week when we'll have another amazing interview with someone sharing their insights and information to help you be a little bit more of a rebel in your life and career. And until next time, have an amazingly rebellious week and I'll see you soon.
